Hornet3d
Wise
In the interest of returning the Dawn Render thread to be the Dawn Render thread
LOL, no worries - it was a group tangentAnd something I suspect people will want to discuss at greater length!!
Wow, that was quick. Thanks
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Welcome to the Community Forums at HiveWire 3D! Please note that the user name you choose for our forum will be displayed to the public. Our store was closed as January 4, 2021. You can find HiveWire 3D and Lisa's Botanicals products, as well as many of our Contributing Artists, at Renderosity. This thread lists where many are now selling their products. Renderosity is generously putting products which were purchased at HiveWire 3D and are now sold at their store into customer accounts by gifting them. This is not an overnight process so please be patient, if you have already emailed them about this. If you have NOT emailed them, please see the 2nd post in this thread for instructions on what you need to do
Let's talk about.....POSTWORK
- Thread starter Alisa
- Start date
Wow, that was quick. Thanks
*crosses fingers that everyone who was starting to talk about postwork sees this now *
As I wrote in the "first" post:
This is starting with a post in response to a comment about Postwork in the Dawn Render thread. It seemed to be a good topic and was taking on a life of its own, so....I've moved that discussion here so it can grow and flourish!! HAVE FUN!!!!
*As I wrote in the "first" post
:This is starting with a post in response to a comment about Postwork in the Dawn Render thread. It seemed to be a good topic and was taking on a life of its own, so....I've moved that discussion here so it can grow and flourish!! HAVE FUN!!!!
Yeah, we can all be a bit bad about diverting off the main subject of a thread, eh?
And yes, Alisa, we all get alerts when a post is moved, or quoted, etc... though unlike Miss B, I did not receive 3 alerts, I did get one about the moved post. Haha
Llola Lane
Adventurous
<--found it!
I love postwork and as far as I am concerned if someone has a picture in their mind of what they are trying to create and postwork helps that image come to fruition...then that to me is NOT postwork...but ART...art comes in many shapes and sizes and as far as I am concerned you use what is needed for your image to become your piece of art...
Hornet3d
Wise
I think that is a very good description of the process, after all most 3D art is an attempt to convey to others an image you have in your head. The fact that you use two, or more, pieces of software to create the render should have no relevance.
Llola Lane
Adventurous
Great words of wisdom everyone... I am still learning my art... I must admit... I do like post work, now that I know how to do a few things
Oh I am huge fan of postwork. Like Satira I aim for a more illustration/painterly style in my own work that I sell. Also since I do sell a lot of my work that means it needs to be much larger/print resolution so trying to do work that large with just a pure render would tie up my computers for weeks on end Also I feel I experiment and play more if I don't limit myself to a "pure" render. In a lot of ways the base render for me is just that- a jumping off point. I also do a lot of compositing in photoshop- often a hundred layers or more- again partly because I can experiment more and for reducing render times. Often I can't find the things I want to have in an image so again those get painted in in Photoshop or Painter. It IS a fun and educational exercise to try to do entire images without postwork or as minimal as possible. I've done that plenty too. All depends what I am trying to achieve in a piece. Basically there is no right or wrong- it is all art which is a totally personal process and means of expression.
That said, all of the product imagery I do for my own and for HiveWire products, the renders are all not postworked other than I often create or composite my backgrounds in photoshop, instead of rendering a full scene incorporating the product, mainly in the interest of time. It takes long enough doing and preparing all the renders one needs for promo and product imagery sometimes
Laurie
Also I feel I experiment and play more if I don't limit myself to a "pure" render. In a lot of ways the base render for me is just that- a jumping off point. I also do a lot of compositing in photoshop- often a hundred layers or more- again partly because I can experiment more and for reducing render times. Often I can't find the things I want to have in an image so again those get painted in in Photoshop or Painter. It IS a fun and educational exercise to try to do entire images without postwork or as minimal as possible. I've done that plenty too. All depends what I am trying to achieve in a piece. Basically there is no right or wrong- it is all art which is a totally personal process and means of expression.That said, all of the product imagery I do for my own and for HiveWire products, the renders are all not postworked other than I often create or composite my backgrounds in photoshop, instead of rendering a full scene incorporating the product, mainly in the interest of time. It takes long enough doing and preparing all the renders one needs for promo and product imagery sometimes
Laurie
For most anything except promos, I do post work.
After all, art is different for each of us who see it and who create it...we are not all clones of each other.
And yes, I found a group who were snobs about any art or product but what they use so I avoid them.
Photoshop is my favorite post work program but I like PSP as well and even try Gimp now and then.
Sometimes there is a little thing off on the hair that needs a touch up or the background, even one rendered in Poser will need it.
I use it to bring out the colors more if I use 3D Delight in DAZ Studio because I can never get the lighting right.
AdamsPostworkKit is one of my favorite sets in Photoshop and I when I was doing images with the MilHorse I used CWRW The Elegant Equine Mane 'n Tail Pack to enhance the manes and tails.
There is nothing wrong with post work, it is just another method or tool to be used and it should be.
After all, art is different for each of us who see it and who create it...we are not all clones of each other.
And yes, I found a group who were snobs about any art or product but what they use so I avoid them.
Photoshop is my favorite post work program but I like PSP as well and even try Gimp now and then.
Sometimes there is a little thing off on the hair that needs a touch up or the background, even one rendered in Poser will need it.
I use it to bring out the colors more if I use 3D Delight in DAZ Studio because I can never get the lighting right.
AdamsPostworkKit is one of my favorite sets in Photoshop and I when I was doing images with the MilHorse I used CWRW The Elegant Equine Mane 'n Tail Pack to enhance the manes and tails.
There is nothing wrong with post work, it is just another method or tool to be used and it should be.
I completely agree with everyone. Whatever you use to create YOUR artwork is part of the art process. Like FL says, it's just another tool/method for you to use
If you were to paint an actual painting with a brush and then use your finger or a cloth to change some things, or add in some torn paper and other media to make it more of a multimedia creation, it's no less a work of art than the original painting would have been. A big part of art is the choices you are making - composition, color, style...and there are many ways to achieve those.
With product promo images, as Laurie notes, I think you should NOT postwork images. If you do add a postworked image you need to make it very clear that it is postworked and in what way.
If you were to paint an actual painting with a brush and then use your finger or a cloth to change some things, or add in some torn paper and other media to make it more of a multimedia creation, it's no less a work of art than the original painting would have been. A big part of art is the choices you are making - composition, color, style...and there are many ways to achieve those.
With product promo images, as Laurie notes, I think you should NOT postwork images. If you do add a postworked image you need to make it very clear that it is postworked and in what way.
I must admit I have an odd sense of pride (more in the PRODUCTS I use, than my art) when something does not need ANY post... because that means the product is THAT GOOD..... (like the new tack, classic and western, especially western!!!!!!!!!!!) I feel pride FOR the modelers, texture-ers, whole team!! But in general I just HAVE to make my art as perfect as I can, as pleasing to the eye as I can... little details that make it come alive... one example, is brushing the horse's hair JUST down over the hoof for a more natural look... unless a horse is shaved, or it's coat SO short, there will be little hairs growing over the top line of the hoof... Things like that...
Llola Lane
Adventurous
Who'd a thunk there'd be this much to talk about post work??? lol
I must admit I have an odd sense of pride (more in the PRODUCTS I use, than my art) when something does not need ANY post... because that means the product is THAT GOOD..... (like the new tack, classic and western, especially western!!!!!!!!!!!) I feel pride FOR the modelers, texture-ers, whole team!! But in general I just HAVE to make my art as perfect as I can, as pleasing to the eye as I can... little details that make it come alive... one example, is brushing the horse's hair JUST down over the hoof for a more natural look... unless a horse is shaved, or it's coat SO short, there will be little hairs growing over the top line of the hoof... Things like that...
Aw, that's sweet, Lyne!! Hopefully postwork that people do is because of an artistic image in their own mind and those little details you mention, or things that 3d models just can't do, rather than to cover defects in the products.
It's an interesting subject, isn't it? And there are so many things created to help people find that image in their mind - brushes, filters, graphics editors, etc.
Llola Lane
Adventurous
<--doesn't have anything in her mind (rattle rattle)... I just play and if I like it ... I post it! lol
Most of the time, the postwork I do is to enhance an image. Things like color correction, brightness, contrast, and sharpening. No matter how good a product is, Studio's raw renders always look a little bit fuzzy to me, and I sharpen them just a little bit. The fuzzy impression could just be my eyes.. I mean, I wear glasses for a reason! LOL. But I don't seem to get that "just slightly fuzzy/blurry" look when I see a raw Poser render, either. And the color correction is almost always needed in my images; I feel that DS and Poser both tend to render colors as a little bit too saturated, so just a slight desaturation is enough to bring the colors to where I want them in post.
Beyond that... the more extensive postworking is usually for things like DOF (sometimes I just prefer to do the DOF by hand rather than with a DOF camera during render). I will also postwork for little bits of poke-through. Nataani's forehead, for instance... with some hairs, he needs a little tiny bit of cloning to cover poke-thru on the forehead with the hair.
But the more extensive postworking I do on an image is mainly for artistic reasons. High Tide, for instance, was very, very heavily postworked because a lot of the special effects just couldn't be achieved very well with 3D. Yes, we can do some special effects in the raw 3D, but for me, they always need a little more work in post to fully flesh them out. I make very heavy use of Deviney's PS brushes.. I use Corel, so I can't use the dynamic settings, but I am able to make masks from his brushes and use them like a stamp brush, which I do a lot of.
It's always nice when I'm in post and I don't have to worry about fixing an item that way. That's a sign of a good CA, yes. Mostly, once I bring a raw render into Corel, it's an off-the-cuff thing.. I play about with the image until I have what I like, and then I save it and post it. LOL
Very rarely do I have to do postwork to "fix" an item. My postwork is primarily done for artistic purposes.
And I never, NEVER postwork a product promo. I will composite them; put several of the raw product renders into a single image at times for the promos, but I don't do any postwork on a promo render. I want people to know exactly what they're getting, so I don't retouch those images at all, ever, whether the item is a freebie or for sale. It's an ethics and honesty thing for me.
Beyond that... the more extensive postworking is usually for things like DOF (sometimes I just prefer to do the DOF by hand rather than with a DOF camera during render). I will also postwork for little bits of poke-through. Nataani's forehead, for instance... with some hairs, he needs a little tiny bit of cloning to cover poke-thru on the forehead with the hair.
But the more extensive postworking I do on an image is mainly for artistic reasons. High Tide, for instance, was very, very heavily postworked because a lot of the special effects just couldn't be achieved very well with 3D. Yes, we can do some special effects in the raw 3D, but for me, they always need a little more work in post to fully flesh them out. I make very heavy use of Deviney's PS brushes.. I use Corel, so I can't use the dynamic settings, but I am able to make masks from his brushes and use them like a stamp brush, which I do a lot of.
It's always nice when I'm in post and I don't have to worry about fixing an item that way. That's a sign of a good CA, yes. Mostly, once I bring a raw render into Corel, it's an off-the-cuff thing.. I play about with the image until I have what I like, and then I save it and post it. LOL
Very rarely do I have to do postwork to "fix" an item. My postwork is primarily done for artistic purposes.
And I never, NEVER postwork a product promo. I will composite them; put several of the raw product renders into a single image at times for the promos, but I don't do any postwork on a promo render. I want people to know exactly what they're getting, so I don't retouch those images at all, ever, whether the item is a freebie or for sale. It's an ethics and honesty thing for me.
That I can agree on. The potential customer should always see exactly what they're getting. It's bad enough that different lighting will produce different effects, but postworking in this instance doesn't work.And I never, NEVER postwork a product promo. I will composite them; put several of the raw product renders into a single image at times for the promos, but I don't do any postwork on a promo render. I want people to know exactly what they're getting, so I don't retouch those images at all, ever, whether the item is a freebie or for sale. It's an ethics and honesty thing for me.