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Inherent Goodness of People?

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I really do believe the vast majority of people intend no harm toward others. They just sometimes may not realize how what they say or do is heard by another person. I think we also may get caught up in our own sense of hurt ... especially when we're on the other side of a monitor ... and may lash out without taking a moment or more to think through why we're reacting as we are.

But it seems I may be a wee bit out of touch with reality.

What drives Internet trolls (and how they affect us)
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I think the second paragraph in the What Makes A Troll section says it all. I also believe trolls really enjoy what they're doing, which just drives them to do it more and more.

Waiting and letting whatever anger or bad feelings we wind up with from something someone posted on a forum (or Twitter, or other social media site), is the best way to deal with the situation. You need to cool down and think it through. I know that usually works for me, though there have been a couple of times I've just let it pass, simply because I can't cool off, and I certainly am not the type to do something which will just make the situation continue, because the trolls would just love being able to attack again, and again, and again.

That was a very interesting read Satira. Thanks for posting the link.
 

Bonnie2001

Extraordinary
That's one thing I dislike about Facebook. It's full of trolls that disagree with everyone else on every subject. They usually pick up on the negative side of every subject, often posting really horrible personal comments. They just suck the fun out of it.
I just block them. :happyflip:
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
One of the reasons I don't do social networking. I can't be bothered having to check to make sure someone isn't flaming me. I have enough forums to deal with on a daily basis. ;)
 

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
That's one thing I dislike about Facebook. It's full of trolls that disagree with everyone else on every subject. They usually pick up on the negative side of every subject, often posting really horrible personal comments. They just suck the fun out of it.
I just block them. :happyflip:
One of my real life friends does that. Even her best friend and a good friend of mine calls her a bully. Last time she did that to me I removed the thread and swore off of political articles so she would keep her big bully mouth to herself. BUT over coffee she starts up. When she gets on a bent like that I just pick up my phone and start playing a game and ignore her and then Jeff, my good friend just mouths to her to stop as it's apparent I'm ignoring her. She started that crap up at dinner the other night, I was not pleased. I want to talk about pleasant things over dinner not conspiracy crap. That woman is insufferable at times but I do love her but I want to strangle her too! lol
 
I do believe it up to us how to respond to people that are out of line. It is hard but I have decided to try to take the high road or if that isn't possible to just let it go. It reflects on the others not me.
 

Janet

Dances with Bees
Contributing Artist
You have to be so careful on the internet. I was friends with a man for about a year and watched him go far far down hill, he was yelling about his wife even touching the water faucet - he had serious OCD. He started taking credit for the work I did. I thought he may have even started to believe he WAS me. He saw a counselor and he wanted me to talk to her - it got soooo weird. All the time I was so nice to him, helped with his disability paperwork and gave lots and lots of moral support. Then he started picking up women on this program and wanting me to sit by and watch. So I just took off, didn't log on to that program again. He has stalked me for over 16 years now. 16 years!!!
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Well I hope he doesn't know how to find you offline Janet. You don't need that kind of hassle.
 

Janet

Dances with Bees
Contributing Artist
He does and already wrecked my life. I finally moved to another state and nothing since then. All quiet for two years. I just hope he doesn't log on here and find me. He's a DS user so I'm just waiting for him to log on and start hassling me or gossiping about me or having other people do or say things to me. I left the Poser world for several years because of this mentally ill creep. Seriously if Ken hadn't suggested I sell my products here I would have just gone away when YURdigital went down. But I'm so happy here and creating lots of new things, damn I would so miss it. I used to work with the mentally ill as a case manager and always saw them as just people with problems. Since this guy however I would never knowingly be friends with one ever again.
 

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
IF he does find you Janet just let Alisa know and if he starts up with you I'm sure they can block him here to keep him in line. There are ways to make sure your safe and feel OK being here at the Hive. I'm sorry you had to endure such a mess of a man for so long. 16 years is a long time..... YIKES! HUGS
 

James R.

Busy Bee
Over the years I've had to deal with my share of internet trolls and obsessive internet weirdos.

Some time ago I deleted my Poser-oriented blog at jameswrook.com, planning to take some time off, refresh, reinvent, and do something different when I came back.

After a run in with an internet bully, I got a ton of pings on my old site, via the Internet Wayback Machine, from a very specific place and IP address group. This person went through every single page and post that was available. Every single one. Posts that I'd deleted long before I deleted my whole blog; somewhat mildly contentious posts I'd deleted at some point because I'd changed my mind on various issues. And over a couple of weeks they obsessively revisited specific posts daily, sometimes multiple times a day. The hits came at the same times of day, from the same IP cluster.

It was bizarre obsessive behaviour and didn't fall in line with someone trying to hack my site or some kind of bot behaviour. I've run my own sites and blogs for nearly 20 years...I know the difference.

Around the same time, this person declared they were starting their own site, doing the same things I had been doing, the same way I'd been doing them. The hits on my defunct site from that specific area of the world and IP address cluster continued whenever they were online on various forums.

So I had my old site and blog removed from the Wayback Machine and redesigned my website and restarted my blog. This person's 'plans' never materialized.

But after that I had an account hacked, false gossip was spread about me, I got password reset requests on several different but related accounts, information from those old deleted posts was spread, and this person has tried to 'enlist' people and create factions with other 'friends' of theirs.

It is obsessively weird and extremely juvenile behaviour.

Recently, since I started posting regularly here, hits on my new website, in a similar pattern, from a similar IP address (this time using a public VPN...but it seems to be flaky and their real IP pops up), in an obsessive way that is very familiar have started again, in concert with when this person is online elsewhere. Probably just coincidence, right?

So far the behaviour has been annoying but harmless. But it's ramping up again.

I'm grateful for the people who have helped me with this, given me info and advice, kept an eye on this person's behaviour, and have alerted me.

I am happy to say that the inherently good folks do seem to outweigh the weirdos.
 

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
That totally sucks James. There are some really messed up folks out there and a good many have no identity so they want to stock and adopt someone elses to make themselves feel better about how boring and uninspiring their own lives are. Sad. Just sad
 

Hornet3d

Wise
The only forums I have ever used are all 3D art related. I don't do social media otherwise, but then I am of a generation that can happily do without it but it does dismay be that such a small number of people can cause so much harm and often it spills out of the virtual into the real world. Very, very sad.
 

Lianam

Eager
Interesting article and video. I was thinking is there somewhere off earth we could send these people?? hehehe I believe most people are also inherently good. It's just the few bad eggs or apples that ruins the rest. I always compost or feed my chickens the bad ones. :p

Seriously, who has enough time or energy to waste on trolling, harassing, etc others??? I know I have run into or seen several 'internet trolls' in my time span online. Of course, I have seen people do similar behaviors in fresh and blood and think wow, hope you never run into someone who will just kick your butt for being such a bully. I don't back down either in some cases especially if know that they think they have the upper hand of you just walk away. Other times I just roll my eyes and walk away. I think it is a case by case issue one has to determine which strategy will work best in the end. I do not like confrontation, war, or bullying, but sometimes one just has to take a stand and say no more enough already.

It seems to me people who have to cause that much strife for others may have a pretty sad or pathetic life to have to go to that much work to make others look bad, but that is just my opinion. We all have different view points based on our life experiences, knowledge base, backgrounds, beliefs, research capabilities, learning capabilities, and discernment capabilities. Bottom line for me is when will we all come together to make this world a better place for all to live with equality of at all levels (monetary, food, health, etc) for all beings on Earth. :)
 

kobaltkween

Brilliant
Contributing Artist
I don't think it's a matter of people being good or bad. I think we're mostly emotionally childish, and that what gives us the ability to act maturely is a sense of control, independence, and empathy. When we understand how the other person is feeling, and feel that we're able to handle that reaction safely, we can let compassion guide our actions.

That isn't to say that expressions of compassion are necessarily understood as such. "Idiot compassion" enables rather than uplifts. True compassion can be as threatening to someone mired in their own negativity as an attack.

I think it's easy today to reach the point where we act from a self-centered perspective rather than a communal one.

So much of life today is online, and it's really hard to read emotion, let alone understand and empathize with it. Also, there's big money in making people scared, so a huge portion of media is dedicated to stoking people's fears. Years of being told to be scared, to be afraid of opening ourselves to the needs of others, have affected us. Fearful people don't feel in control or independent. As a result, we've started having reactions that are all out of proportion or even just mistaken. If everyone is so touchy that we can't respond to criticism, or even just facts that we perceive as criticism, without going nuclear, then all we can do is keep hurting one another.

For instance, I've seen lots of people talk about traumatizing violence as a justifiable response to someone re-posting images of someone else's art. That's just not proportionate. Worse, I'd say that most of the times I've seen this, it's involved either fan art, or art inspired by very specific works. The people wronged haven't been wronged to the point of physical injury _and_ have committed the same wrong or worse. These reinterpretations of others' art is usually more sexualized, or changed in ways the original artists could easily find offensive. They often offer prints of their work, with no money sent back to the original artists.

And they relate conversations that tend to go like this: "You're doing something horrible by reposting my image. Stop at once." "You're a horrible person for accusing me of being bad! I'll change nothing! You should be ashamed of yourself!" No matter how polite (but angry) they tend to be, the response from the other person tends to be an off-the-charts escalation. The other person isn't able to say, "Sorry. I meant no offense. I'll remove my post/tweet/whatever." The site gets involved, it all gets messy, and everyone goes away furious and hurt, carrying an even greater grudge against the world for its injustice.

Everyone involved thinks of themselves as a good person. But they also think of themselves as generally aggrieved and embattled. They're so focused on their own victimhood that they can't even see how they hurt others. Worse, when someone points it out, they feel like that person is denying the victimhood they spend so much time building up. It is not, for instance, as bad to have someone tell you you're stepping on their foot as it is to have your foot stepped on. But we act like it is. We'd be a lot better off if we could hear people's honest grievances against us, and appreciate when our reaction gets out of proportion. But that takes feeling safe. Many are so fearful and full of righteous victimhood that they can't accurately assess their safety. They never feel truly powerful, so they hurt a lot of people by just trying to feel secure.
 

Janet

Dances with Bees
Contributing Artist
But after that I had an account hacked, false gossip was spread about me, I got password reset requests on several different but related accounts, information from those old deleted posts was spread, and this person has tried to 'enlist' people and create factions with other 'friends' of theirs.

It is obsessively weird and extremely juvenile behaviour.

Recently, since I started posting regularly here, hits on my new website, in a similar pattern, from a similar IP address (this time using a public VPN...but it seems to be flaky and their real IP pops up), in an obsessive way that is very familiar have started again, in concert with when this person is online elsewhere. Probably just coincidence, right?

So far the behaviour has been annoying but harmless. But it's ramping up again.

That sounds sooo famaliar! This man sounded very well educated and very intelligent. He has a very engaging manner - until you really get to know him.

I'm all for freedoms but after all this I'm glad they are tightening up on the internet. And TOR proxy? Don't even get me started.
 

Szark

Awesome
This is how I deal with trolls etc,

1: Grow a thicker skin
2: don't take it personally, they are only words
3: don't read the crap

I am on FB and I hardly read the comments on hot topics, I am there for the humour, new and information.
 
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