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I have to ask...

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
Thanks for the info. I'm a die hard Gigabyte motherboard person. Do they make boards similar to the one you posted above and if so what do I search for on EBay for something like that? I want it as complete as possible. I do use iRay almost exclusively so GPU is sort of it's "go too" thing I guess. I'm no expert but from all I've read on the DAZ Forums it seems they push for dual GPU's, one for rendering and one for keeping the system stable while multi tasking. Currently I'm on a machine when I'm rendering everything else comes to a crawl. MP3's from iTunes stutter sometimes... all that .... so any info would be dearly appreciated. I'm a Windows 10 64bit user!
 

seachnasaigh

Energetic
Gigabyte certainly makes server motherboards; the ones I see at Newegg (Gigabyte server mobos at Newegg) are dual 2011 socket, though. That's for the newer Xeons, which I'd *love* to have, but it ain't in my budget to buy a pair of the new multi-core Xeons. The older Westmere series Xeons I'm suggesting use the 1366 socket. You can buy motherboards with dual 1366 sockets new. The CPUs you would buy used (they don't make Westmeres anymore), and likewise buy the RAM used (just to save money). I don't see a big price break for used motherboards, so I may choose either a new one or a used mobo.

If you want a complete workstation, just search eBay for "2x X5650" or "2x X5690". Narrow your shopping down to those units which come with sufficient RAM. Figure on buying your own new hard drive - that's the one piece of used enterprise gear which will wear out, and usually you will need to get your own Win7Pro license. Do *not* waste money on a retail Win7 license; get an OEM (system builder's) Win7 license. The OEM is much cheaper and completely valid; the one advantage of the retail license is that Microsoft will help you get it installed. Bluntly, the retail license is to accommodate the incompetent newbie. But really, even a newbie can install an OEM license; it pretty much does everything automatically. Some used workstations include a Win7Pro license (TinkerBell did), but most do not.

For use as a workstation, ignore all the search results which are blades (they're wide, but only an inch or two high, and 29" front-to-back)

Blades do not have a sound card, nor the means to add one. Blades also do not have a video card (just a minimal onboard chip), nor the means to add one. Their multiple high-velocity fans are noisy. I do not recommend using a blade as your workstation.

But... Used server blades are the cat's meow for networked rendering, controlled by your workstation; these dual-processor units cost about two cents on the dollar of what they cost new, but few people would know what to do with them, so they go for bargain prices. $667 per server blade gets you twenty four render threads at 2.66GHz! You don't need a rack; you can just stack a few on a milk crate. I don't know if D/S and Iray can use render slave units. Poser Pro, Lux, and HyperVue can.

With workstation (desktop) chassis, be aware that for the same chassis design, some came with one processor, others were made with two. Ignore the single-CPU units. The most common workstation chassis will be Dell T-7500 (like TinkerBell) and HP z800. There are also smaller midtowers, T-5500 and z600 (Urania). The midtowers will not have as much capacity for video cards and memory. Cameron is a Boxx 8520 chassis; but it would be unlikely to see one on eBay.
Newegg occasionally has refurb workstations, and sometimes you can find refurb workstations on Amazon (Eir & Kara, each with dual quad-cores were $540 each).
 

seachnasaigh

Energetic
...what do I search for on EBay for something like that?

Search "2x 1366"; that should bring up motherboards with two 1366 sockets, which is what you'd want.
Be sure to note the format (size) of the motherboard; most full tower chassis take ATX, some -like the Alienware Aurora- have mounts to accept the longer E-ATX server board. Enhanced Extended ATX is very large and would only fit custom chassis or blades.

For GPU rendering, the price/performance sweet spot is the 6GB nVidia 980Ti. Consider two of those dedicated to Iray, with a third lesser/cheaper GPU to run the monitor(s), if you have PCIe slots and power supply to accommodate it.
Important: Do *not* mix GeForce series and Quadro! Their drivers interfere with each other.

Oh, further info: regarding Xeon model numbers,
E = economy tune; low energy use, weakest performance
L = compromise between economy and performance
X = extreme performance

So, for example, the L5520 is a midrange HyperThreaded quad core.

For 3D rendering, X is the best.
 
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seachnasaigh

Energetic
Edit time limit got me.:confused: E-ATX is short for Extended ATX. A lot of full size towers will accept it, but many won't. Don't confuse it with Enhanced Extended ATX, which is an oversized monster.:eek:
 

Dakorillon (IMArts)

Dances with Bees
Contributing Artist
Seach, thank you for the run-down. This is tucked away for the future...far future, for me. But, it's good to have the info available. It's been 2 years+ since my last computer purchase, and I didn't do 3D back then! My next expense, is probably going to be upgrading my desktop to 64bit. Hate doing it, but More and more things require it.
 

seachnasaigh

Energetic
...probably going to be upgrading my desktop to 64bit.

It's a worthwhile upgrade. Look for the model number on the motherboard (or run the free utility Speccy), then go to the manufacturer's website and look up the specs for that board - see how much RAM the motherboard will handle. Increasing the RAM while upgrading to 64bit will give you greater capacity for multi-doll scenes. You'll also need to identify what type of RAM your motherboard uses (Speccy will tell you). I started with a 32bit WinXP machine; Sarit still runs - she seems to be immortal.:ninja:

Another upgrade possibility is consider buying (used, preferably) the highest core count processor which your board will accommodate. If you can go from a 2.6GHz H/T quad to a 3.47GHz H/T hex, that will double your corexclockspeed factor; you could render twice as fast as before. You'll need to identify the CPU socket type on your motherboard (Speccy will identify both the socket and the current processor model), and see if there is a wattage (power delivered to the processor) limit stated. Sometimes, you have to update the motherboard's BIOS for the newer/faster CPU. You will have to re-enter your Windows key, because Windows will see it as a different computer.

Just some options to consider.

The next step in upgrade level would be to replace the motherboard with a dual-CPU server board. They *do* make dual CPU boards in ATX size, which is the standard desktop motherboard size. An ATX server mobo would fit any standard desktop chassis. The ATX server boards characteristically have "only" six RAM slots and their main chipset will handle "only" 48GB RAM. Urania was made this way; she is just a midtower chassis (HP z600). Packs a lot of rendering punch for a little midtower chassis. This option will require a new Windows license (get an OEM license, not a retail license).
 
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Dakorillon (IMArts)

Dances with Bees
Contributing Artist
I have a quad core processor already, it came with one, since it was refurbished, I think. Currently have 4GB RAM, I think I can upgrade to either 8 or 12. But I don't know how to do any overclocking. I have an EVGA utility that is supposed to help maintain that for me, but I never figured it out.

I have Windows 7 Ultimate, would it still take a new license?

Thank you for all your information
 

seachnasaigh

Energetic
I'd shy away from overclocking. It works well for gaming, in which CPU activity is sporadic, but rendering loads the processor at 100% and keeps it pegged for long periods. Increasing the RAM from 4GB to 8/12 would be well worth it, though.

As I understand it, you would need to upgrade (not replace) your Windows license to 64bit. I've never done it; I've converted a few machines from 32bit WinXP to 64bit Win7, but because I found OEM Win7Pro licenses for $72 each and had changed mobo/CPUs, it wasn't worth shopping for an upgrade price - I just used the new license. Since you're keeping the same version of Windows (7 Ultimate) on the same mobo/CPU, upgrading the existing Win7Ult license to 64bit should be feasible.
 

Dakorillon (IMArts)

Dances with Bees
Contributing Artist
I did that Speccy thing, does this tell me what I CAN have? or what I DO have?

Speccy.jpg
 

Dakorillon (IMArts)

Dances with Bees
Contributing Artist
Okay, looking at just the RAM tab, I have 4GB, not 21 GB, so where is it getting that? Some sort of Virtual thing? That wouldn't help with renders though, right?
 

seachnasaigh

Energetic
It tells you what you *do* have; that in turn gives you clues as to what you *can* have.

Your CPU socket is AM2.

The memory report looks goofy (21.0GB? twenty one?!?) Heh heh. Click on the blue RAM heading and expand that; it will give more specific info.

Hah! cross-posted. You noticed that, too. Expand the RAM heading
 

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
Edit time limit got me.:confused: E-ATX is short for Extended ATX. A lot of full size towers will accept it, but many won't. Don't confuse it with Enhanced Extended ATX, which is an oversized monster.:eek:
Thanks for all the info. I can't get a full tower with how my computer area in my living space is set up so a mid tower is all I can do. This is allot of info to take in but I'll mull it over and see where my brain takes it... lol
 

seachnasaigh

Energetic
Interior of Cameron, dual X5680 Xeons (HyperThreaded hex core, 3.33GHz w 3.60GHz turbo, 96GB RAM):


This morning, Cameron is controlling a rack of server blades, rendering out new backdrop texturing images for the Lothlorien enviro playset.:D Thirteen blades (bought second-hand), each with dual H/T hex-core Xeons. The KVM (Keyboard/Video/Mouse) box is switched to Athena.


Everything is connected via Cat6 cables into a Gigabit-speed switch. Different colors help identify which cable goes to what. :confused:
 
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