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How to make matching shoes.

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
So I did a little more experimenting. I loaded in a primitive cube and put on a texture I have that came with a displacement map. With no displacement or normal map in Firefly it looks like this:

When I add in the displacement map the texture came with I get this:

Now when I add a normal map I created by loading the image into Crazy Bump and using the default settings (lots of fiddling is possible) I get this:

Finally same normal map in Superfly:

So now for my question on normal maps. Any idea why the texture got so much darker? I didn't change anything other than adding the normal map (and removing the displacement map).
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
Okay, so I've just learned a lot about Normal maps in the last little bit, because I realized I didn't understand them at all. I've been reading through and learned there are all sorts of Normal maps. So what kind do you suggest using? I've never noticed any blue or rainbow colored stuff on any of the materials I have, so do people usually use greyscale normal maps? Or have I just not been paying enough attention?

There is a lot of confusion around the differences between normal and bump maps. I've noticed that during the early release of Poser 11, where even some big names from the content creation crew were misunderstanding the difference. Normal maps are a much more recent invention, and maybe that's why there is some confusion around it.

Bump maps are the old way of adding fake detail to a surface. They are limited to 8-bits resolution, which can only reach up to 256 levels of grey. When adding fake detail to a surface, bump maps only understand "up" and "down", and it only works if the camera is looking more or less straight to the surface, since the added details only exist in shadow casting. They are easier to create than normal maps because all they use is 8-bits greyscale, which can be painted in Photoshop.

Normal maps are the better and newer solution, where it uses the RGB values of a bitmap to store X, Y and Z coordinates that are used to calculate normal vectors out of each pixel (hence the name). These vectors are then used to calculate the shadows in actual 3D space, instead of just up and down. This is the most used method in real-time games nowadays because of the added detail and performance, but just like bump maps, the details are also fake and only exist in shadow casting. There are 2 kinds of normal map: local and tangent space. Local is the default in Poser, and it only applies to models that don't move, such as props. Tangent space is the bluish-purple one, and it's the best choice for models that move (deform), such as characters and clothing. Unless you are mapping a prop, you have to remember to change this setting in Poser to tangent space, and set gamma to "1" instead of "2.2", since these maps don't need color correction. If you forget to adjust gamma, the normal map will appear overblown.

Besides bump and normal "fake" details, there is also displacement. These actually change the models surface during render time, and require a compatible mesh resolution to be able to do so. If the geometry doesn't have enough polys, it will be of no use. Displacement maps use the same kind of greyscale maps like bump maps, but are much more computationally expensive, and require high-res models to work. Conversely, bump and normal maps add "fake" detail, so they are very fast to render and can be used with low-res geometry - hence the best choice for game engines.

Hope it helps avoiding confusion. ^^
 

Art_of_Mind

Engaged
Contributing Artist
The way I do it is with STOMP, an external utility which operates on OBJ format files. I always save the mesh without normals. STOMP takes care of the facet winding order, which is what Poser uses instead of normals to determine the 'outer' face on your mesh. I've never had any problem with bump or displacement, anyway, and I imagine that would also apply to normal maps. You just have to remember to rename the group on the mirrored shoe, assuming you're making conforming shoes. If not, then no problem!

STOMP can be downloaded from here: Spanki's Prop Shop: Downloads / Utilities

I had a message that the site's security certificate had expired, so it may be that the owner has moved on. Just a warning if you're visiting this thread from some time in the future. :)

I would be interested in hearing more about STOMP
Do you model a shoe, the use this to make the mirror of the shoe? Model it then uv map it, then run it through STOMP?
Is it simple enough to write up a quick how to do it?
 
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English Bob

Adventurous
I would be interested in hearing more about STOMP
Do you model a shoe, the use this to make the mirror of the shoe? Model it then uv map it, then run it through STOMP?
Is it simple enough to write up a quick how to do it?

It's so simple, you just wrote the how-to yourself. :)
  1. Model one shoe and UV map it.
  2. Open it in STOMP, got to Edit > Mirror > Flip X
  3. Save.
If you want morphs, make them for the first shoe only and export each on as OBJ.
Then run each morph OBJ through the same Flip X process using STOMP. Because they've all been through the same pipeline, they'll be compatible with the mirrored shoe.
 

Art_of_Mind

Engaged
Contributing Artist
Well, I tried it out and it worked, easy just as you say. I was very surprised.
After you amke a left and right boot, is there anyway to join the back together so you can use symmetry tools? Without having to redo the uv's
Also, these boxes should be left alone right?

!Question.JPG
 

English Bob

Adventurous
After you amke a left and right boot, is there anyway to join the back together so you can use symmetry tools? Without having to redo the uv's

There are various ways to do this. If your modeller preserves grouping, materials and UVs then just import both left and right and export again as a single mesh. You may have to set options which will depend on your modeller - let us know what that is as Glitterati3D suggested. Alternatively you can import them both into Poser and export them to one file - Poser should preserve all the important stuff although I haven't verified this recently.

Also, these boxes should be left alone right?

You can safely leave the OBJ export options at the defaults.
  • You don't need the MTL file, so you can un-check that box if you want.
  • If you really want to be fancy, select face sorting by group which used to speed up the pre-render loading process in Poser. I don't know if this is still the case, but it won't hurt to do it. It neatens up the OBJ file.
 

Glitterati3D

Dances with Bees
Making symmetrical shoes (gloves, sleeves, etc.) in Hexagon.

Model and UV map one side normally. Don't even bother with the other side at all yet. Here I'm modeling boots for Baby Luna
Step1ModelMap.jpg


You will also want to define your materials before you proceed to the 2nd shoe.

Once that is complete, with the shoe selected on the Hexagon scene tree, invoke the symmetry tool.

This is a 3 step process:
1. Select the item you wish to duplicate
2. Invoke the Symmetry Tool
3. Click on the faces you wish to use as the symmetry point.
SymmetryTool.jpg


Now, you have 2 boots, but we need to position the new one onto the foot. On a fully symmetrical model, it's a simple process of selecting the X position of the original shoe and copying to the new boot as a negative number for the right side, and transform the negative to a positive number if you are going from right to left. Even if the model is not perfectly symmetrical, you can freely move the shoe around to get a good fit using the Hexagon manipulator tool.

PositionShoe.jpg



The reason you want to UV map and set material shaders before creating the symmetrical object is because those things will move right with the new shoe. The UV map will actually contain BOTH shoes, stacked on top of each other, with one map flipped for the symmetry. When texturing the shoes, you only have to texture one shoe and the 2nd will be a perfect mirror of the first.

Here I moved one of the pieces so you can see the stacking.
UVMapBoth.jpg
 
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Art_of_Mind

Engaged
Contributing Artist
Yep, got Hexagon and can use it.
Great stuff, we've been working on some boots for a few weeks now; this thread really helped big time!
Following all instructions and understanding and doing it and everything is working out.
So here is where we are now -
Modeled --Check!
Uv's --Check!
Rigging --Check!
Weight maped --Check!
Aaigning material zones --Check!
Making Textures, easy part saving for last.

Saving out a pose that only poses the shin, feet, and toes. Do not know how, tried a few failed but have not gone looking for tuts yet, I'm sure they are countless out there, I'll google and find it later.
Create a hide feet pose. I don't think these boots need them but it seems to be the trend with lots of boots so I'll need to make them and include them. Not tried it yet but think it should be easy.

So all above we're good, understand and can get it done.

The only thing I'm stuck on for now, and hope it would be the last piece of this boot creation, I made a zipper that is for looks only, just the zipper handle pull.
I was thinking it should load as a smart prop (if the user wanted it) boots look fine without it, but just in case the user wanted it, I was thinking to have it so it could load as a smart prop, and by the zipper handle pull being a smart prop it would not get distorted by morphing/stretching the boots to fit different body shapes and could easily be adjusted if need be. But this does not seem to be standard practice, so I worry this logic is so far outside the box I should not do it this way. Thoughts, suggestions, comments welcome on the zipper handle pull. Is it possible to safe out a figure that loads with a smart prop, I do not think it is.
 
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English Bob

Adventurous
Saving out a pose that only poses the shin, feet, and toes. Do not know how, tried a few failed but have not gone looking for tuts yet, I'm sure they are countless out there, I'll google and find it later.

That should be easy. Save the figure's pose to the library as normal, but click on the 'select subset' button and select the parts you want to include.
All the shoe fit poses I've seen affect only feet and toes; I don't believe you'll need to include shins.

The only thing I'm stuck on for now, and hope it would be the last piece of this boot creation, I made a zipper that is for looks only, just the zipper handle pull.
I was thinking it should load as a smart prop (if the user wanted it) boots look fine without it, but just in case the user wanted it, I was thinking to have it so it could load as a smart prop, and by the zipper handle pull being a smart prop it would not get distorted by morphing/stretching the boots to fit different body shapes and could easily be adjusted if need be. But this does not seem to be standard practice, so I worry this logic is so far outside the box I should not do it this way. Thoughts, suggestions, comments welcome on the zipper handle pull. Is it possible to safe out a figure that loads with a smart prop, I do not think it is.

It's a good thought, and it's possible to do if you want to. Again, click on 'select subset' when saving and include the smart prop.

I think the reason it isn't common practice is because the zipper pull is usually a long way from any joint zones, and so is unlikely to be affected by them. That said, I have a vague memory of an add-on zipper pull prop in my library somewhere. I'll see if I can find what it was associated with.
 

Art_of_Mind

Engaged
Contributing Artist
'select subset' great tip - Thanks again, been running tests and I may have got lucky due to the location of the zipper, about three inched below the knee on the inside of the leg (added it to the figure) and so far with every morph thrown at it, no distortion. It has it's own material zone so if the user don't want it they can turn it off. I think we're all good here on this end, moving right along thanks to all the help in this thread.
 

Art_of_Mind

Engaged
Contributing Artist
foot pose, pulling hair out
DS will not let me only select the foot and toes, it is trying to make me select from the Pelvis down, even when I uncheck everything and recheck it auto selects all the way up to the pelvis

arg.JPG


edit, I dont see a 'select subset' button, probaly right in front of somwhere

2nd edit, I'm using DS4.9 I found this tut, looks easy, followed tot but 4.9 is different
Saving Partial Poses in Daz Studio 4 - Digi-Dotz 3D

okay, so found the check modified but it selects everything,
bug maybe in DS4.9 - most likely I'm doing something wrong though

part 3.JPG


part 2.JPG
 
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Pendraia

Sage
Contributing Artist
Sorry...I'd offer to help but I'm brain dead at the moment from work. How did you create the rigging? Did you use template for a shoe? I'll have a look at the pair I'm rigging for Diva from Glitterati's free set and tell you what it looks like but that won't happen until Friday if you can wait that long...
 

Art_of_Mind

Engaged
Contributing Artist
Sorry...I'd offer to help but I'm brain dead at the moment from work. How did you create the rigging? Did you use template for a shoe? I'll have a look at the pair I'm rigging for Diva from Glitterati's free set and tell you what it looks like but that won't happen until Friday if you can wait that long...

I created the rig by telling DS Dawns foot pose was zero then transferred her rig then put Dawn in her real zero pose and fit the boots to her then used the weight brush to smokth out wrinkles and then applied the pose with the feet arched. But my foot pose zeros all of dawn save for her feet. I only want a pose that puts her feen in pose.
 

Art_of_Mind

Engaged
Contributing Artist
never believe this, the other night/day whenever it was.. I tried countless test, all failed.. closed and reopend DS tried countless things. Tonight I tried again just to be trying, did the same thing I did the other day and this time it worked! DS and the computer needed a reboot. close and reopen will not help, so if anyone ever has this issue, reboot the computer and it should work.
believe it or not >_< and I pulled out all that hair for nothing
 
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