Content Paradise is shutting down

[Miss B]

I never upgraded from DS 4.0 Pro, and my Genesis/V5,S5,M5, so don't recall what the time between upgrades was, but that sounds about right PHD. It was the software that upgraded from DSF format to DUF format sooner, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Ken1171]

I stand corrected. That's what I get for using 2nd hand information - I have only used the first Genesis. I actually liked the Aiko from Genesis2, but that alone didn't justify changing figures. I will leave that for those with deeper pockets.

 

[Hornet3d]

@Hornet3d Oh I see, so it's about the DS sales priority then. I ask because I don't buy much at Rendo, so I have no clue about their sales. I kind of agree with @Darryl and it makes sense for Rendo to favor the more popular figures because they just follow the money. I actually don't know if DS content sells more or not, I just know that DAZ figures have always been mainstream at Rendo.

As far as the marketplace is concerned it may be a DS sales priority, my point is, when linked to other matters like unfair moderation, particularly the Poser forum, it came across as a reluctance to support Poser. It is a personal view that may be unfounded and out of date but as I never go to Renderosty it is unlikely to change.

Another very personal view is that I feel a better home for CP content (and vendors) would be Hivewire3D, especially if there is indeed a DS sales priority for whatever reason, at Renderosity. The situation here is far more balanced, but then most things are a Hivewire. I would add the proviso that any such content would need to meet Hivewire's rules and quality stipulations.

 

[Hornet3d]

The cycle is definitely closer to two years than 6 months as mentioned aboved.

"that was too soon, and I believe nobody disagrees on that"

Actually most people enjoy the figure updates as by far the majority of content from figure even as far back as Victoria 4 is fairly easily transferred using clones. Not only clothing but poses, morphs and material presets are fairly easy to transfer. Not only that I currently have every figure going back to Victoria 4 installed just because a new figure is released it doesn't mean you need to delete the old figure. In fact it expands your tool set, it doesn't restrict it.

"Some people felt betrayed, because converted outfits are never as good as the original. Not to mention vendors started to sell conversions as new products, and this has become common practice for years, to the detriment of the community. "

Doesn't this feel a bit of a contradiction to you? People were betrayed because the content they had bought years ago for an older figure lost some functionality when transferring it to a new figure(Sometimes across multiple generations). But vendors betrayed the community by releasing updated conversions, often with entirely new shader setups and textures for the updated Render engine and entirely new FBMs for the latest figure sets. What a betrayal... Honestly I don't think these items are as prevalent as made out and if they are not wanted in the community then they wouldn't sell, which would mean vendors would stop making them right? How exactly are these items a detriment to the community?

"Some claim DAZ sales haven't been the same ever since, and even that they haven't been selling much at all - but I don't really know. I just know people are not stupid, and they know when something is not right."

How do you come up with these statements? Have you ever heard of a website called Alexa?
It's basically a site that monitors and reports on site traffic. Here are some rankings from that site just to give an idea on traffic and what people know about what is right...
Global Rank Hivewwire3D: 504,465 Content Paradise: 436,290 CGbytes: 342,219 Renderosity: 21,709 Daz 3D: 7,523

Obviously lower ranking is better, the ranking is generated by numerous things but primarily site traffic.

So what are the sources for this statement may I ask? "Some claim" or are you just projecting what you wish was happening, because for myself let me tell you it isn't what I see happening tbh. You are implying a lot of this behaviour is somehow some kind of con, but in fact it is quite the opposite a lot of customers these days expect to see progress in their platforms and figure bases and anticipate and are excited by it. How do you think the Genesis figure series has reached Genesis 8 if customers are so adverse to it? Why do vendors continue to sell updated legacy items if there is no market demand for it?

I have no real issues with any of that but I would just make the comment that site traffic does not correlate very well to sales, I go to Daz3D on a daily basis almost but I only ever buy the content I want on sale so perhaps one in twenty or thirty visits results in a sale. I can see that the higher traffic the more sales are likely to be the case but to what level is hard to judge.

The second point I would make is that it is clear that some people like the ever changing nature of Genesis, and I do not mean that in a derogatory sense, while others tend to stick with a figure that stays much the same with just the odd update. I tend to lean towards the latter of the two cases but I think both preferences are valid depending on many factors such and each persons likes, the type of art they do and maybe just how much they can afford to spend on a figure. The first option may well mean you have the latest and greatest figure while the second option might mean you get to know any given figure in much more depth. Of course there is no reason why you should opt for either you could chose the run with both sets of figures.

Put simply I see no reason why all figures cannot co exist in the world of 3d art. I have no wish to see Daz3d do anything but prosper but I have no desire to see Poser die either and the same goes for content marketplaces. Choice should be a good thing and once again you have the option of using DS, Poser or even both.

 

[Hornet3d]

Just a quick note here and not to disagree with you Hornet3d, as I understand much of your POV on this comes down to your own personal preference.

But I found one thing interesting in your above comment, you mention the moderators in the Renderosity Poser forum as being biased against Poser? Who do you think the moderators are in the Poser forums or in fact across the whole Renderosity site in general? Would it be strange if I told you I don't think I know a single admin, moderator or coordinator at Renderosity who is a Daz Studio user or has been for the last 10 years plus? The one Moderator I did know who used DS, was basically iced out of their position for advocating a more neutral stance on DS and has been gone for years now and never was a Poser forum moderator. Even the Daz Studio forum on Renderosity is moderated/coordinated by only Poser users. Not a single DS user as moderator or Co-ord for a DS forum among 4 Renderosity Mods/co-ords, think about that for a second. It would be a much easier case to make a case that the forums are more biased against DS users from what I can see. How many Poser forums are their now at Renderosity? it was about 15 at my last count, how many DS forums do you think there are? What do you think the Grand prize for most competitions is at Renderosity? Did you guess Poser and various other SM software licenses? That's right if you enter and win any of the competitions at Rendo using Daz Studio, you win... a Poser licence... Isn't that awesome

Being flippant I would say that there would be little point in giving a DS license as a competition prize.

On a serious note, I will bow to your much better knowledge on the background of the moderators and how that might or might not effect their judgement. I will also accept, as I have already, that my view on the bias may be unfounded. What I do know first hand is how I was treated by Renderosity and why and it left a bad taste in my mouth. I have no wish or desire to go all over the gory details again and even if I did this would be the wrong place to do so. What is fact is that I have what I genuinely feel is good reason to feel there was a bias and the whole process has left me with no desire to return to Renderosity any time soon.

Before anyone shouts I have always had a axe to grind with Renderosity I would point them to my posts relating to the changes in the Prime offering a few years ago which I think will show I was highly supportive. I am also prepared to stand by all my posts at Renderosity, which I think were generally fair, although I am prone to not explaining myself very well at times. Lastly my spend at Renderosity was over $100 a month for over two years, not I suggest something I would do if I was anti Renderosity at the time. The view I have now of Renderosity was the view they created and the fact I do not visit the site says a lot, but even there I am prepared to accept that my treatment/view will make me biased. Trying to look at something logically when you know you have a bias is difficult but without the bias I think I would still feel Hivewire would make a better home for CP content.

 

[Deleted member 325]

Nothing wrong with making a profit. I forgot to add a smiley or "lol" after that statement ;-). Point being that Rendo promoted Genesis because it made economic sense and longtime users don't buy as much, not because Rendo has it in for Poser.

I would very heavily disagree with this statement. I am a longtime user, and I still spend a lot on quality or useful 3D content especially for Poser when it is available or suits my needs. I have sunk the majority of my entertainment and spending budget that is left after my bills get paid back into content and tools over the last decade, except the occasional DVD here and there - including whatever dividends I made as a seller (and at one time that was a few hundred a month itself). My order history on Rendo (and Daz3D before the falling out, and even CP) are fairly long because of how long I had shopped there and how much I had purchased when it was available in numbers. Even my wishlists tend to be lengthy when there is something I like.

More and more, though, for poser content, I am seeing a lot of rehashes of something already done, sometimes looking not as good as older ones no longer available - I am seeing a lot of blocky or what I would consider poorly modeled or poorly rigged figures, a lot of things being sold as static props that should be rigged figures - it's like quality took a 10 year back step. This is not exactly Rendo's fault though (sure they could deny the product but then that's less poser content). Too many of the good vendors have left Poser, and I will elaborate more further down.

Except that not all of us need to have the latest bling, or the latest new & shiny just because it is new & shiny. And some don't have unlimited budgets to keep buying the same little outfits for 20 dozen new & shiny bling figures. Personally, I like V4 & M4 just fine. I also like Dawn & Dusk because they're stable and STAYING instead of being replaced every six months with a slight "upgrade" to something shinier.

I both agree and disagree. I hate the whole Upgrade for the sake of upgrading concept - where there is the urge to roll out a new version of a figure, a phone, a website, even if it is not improved, just because it's old. I prefer form and substance and function over age and newness. Additionally, being all of the roll outs of newer Genesis figures, it is contradictory to the entire marketing platform they used when the first rolled out - that was essentially that it would be one figure that could be morphed and transformed and made into whatever you needed and so could it's textures and assets. But watch out, here comes Genesis II... and 3...and 8 (hey where'd 4, 5, 6, and 7 go?) and we're gonna make you re-buy everything again and again. This doesn't work for me, not just because I have to monitor my expenditures, but because I need to be able to build a library of textures and outfits for my purposes. I wanted to use Poser to populate animated scenes with digital actors - that is a powerful versatility in my eyes. I fell in love with being able to dial in a morph or two, swap out hair, change skin color, and swap clothing and make a number of distinct characters in a few clicks. I started in the M1/M2 era where the base figures came with tons of morphs so it was very easy - coming out of using Lightwave from 1988 through 2001 and trying to model characters in it, this seemed like the answer to my dreams - to create a virtual studio. So for me, it's about figures that are functional and stay around and build libraries of assets.


Regarding Rendo, while I am not entirely unbiased, I will try to leave my biases out and just do a simple analysis. I do not feel they have a particular bias against Poser products What is happening is the store is getting heavily weighted in favor of DS because there are more new DS vendors, and many older Poser vendors have chosen to abandon Poser for a variety of reasons. While there are newer Poser vendors too, many of them do not seem to have the years of experience and skill such as those who have left, and too me, it shows in the images and quality of the products, but they are pricing them based on Rendo's price practices in that top tier pricing. I am seeing a lot of building models that are not using enough beveling near edges, so the edges are too sharp, not roughing up the textures to look real world, etc... and while I found that perfectly fine in the 90's and early millennium when the tech was still young, and better methods weren't known, and memory was measured in kb and mb, but not now. It's partly why I do not have any 3D models for sale (I am unhappy with quality level of my work...plus I do not quite understand UV mapping because I learned in a bygone age when everything was procedural and projection mapped...old dog and all of that). I will say Rendo is more than happy to accept Poser content for most any figure as long as it passes QA and meets TOS. I can post M4/V4, Dusk/Dawn, Sixus1 Figures support, Products for Schell's Variables and Vehicles, SM figure support files, and I had even asked about M3/V3 at one point and was told they would accept them but were unsure how well they would sell or if they would avoid the clearance axe (that was over a year ago though...but still long after the life cycle of the figures is over officially). That being said, I do not feel that there is a bias in terms of allowing or accepting Poser content at Rendo.
R.e. Advertising - keep in mind that the advertisements one sees scrolling through the banners at Rendo are paid for by the vendors. This means that the heavy stream of pro-DS and pro-Genesis advertisements are because those vendors are willing to outlay more financially to get them noticed. This likely is a good indicator that they may be selling better. I can not blame Renderosity for this directly. Do I find it annoying as a Poser user - absolutely. Do I hate seeing a set of recommended products that only work in DS at the top of every page when I am specifically looking at "What's New for Poser" - you bet your bippy! However, a vendor paid to have that done with his products. I really do not feel I can elaborate much further than that, and already hope this isn't saying too much. Though despite my recent worries and concerns over Renderosity, I do want to make sure misconceptions are not behind bad gossip and rumors and give them credit where credit is due.

* Unrelated sidenote about online spell checking, blocky is absolutely a word and spelled properly... and where'd is the proper contraction of where did - get a dictionary firefox.

 

[Miss B]

Actually most people enjoy the figure updates as by far the majority of content from figure even as far back as Victoria 4 is fairly easily transferred using clones.

Now it is, but I doubt it was back when the original Genesis came out. I doubt there were clones back then, so transferring V4 clothing to V5, or M4 clothing to the M5, was not all that easy. Autofit was never perfect.

 

[Ken1171]

Another very personal view is that I feel a better home for CP content (and vendors) would be Hivewire3D, especially if there is indeed a DS sales priority for whatever reason, at Renderosity. The situation here is far more balanced, but then most things are a Hivewire. I would add the proviso that any such content would need to meet Hivewire's rules and quality stipulations.

If HW would do that, they would also have to carry the SMS figures, so perhaps that could be a conflict of interest?

 

[Hornet3d]

If HW would do that, they would also have to carry the SMS figures, so perhaps that could be a conflict of interest?

That is a fair point and one I overlooked not that any of the figures would real competition to the Hivewire family. There are a couple of vendors I would like to see here though and maybe others that are already here could extent the amount of content have for sale buy moving CP only stuff.

 

[Deleted member 325]

Genesis 8 was named because of Victoria naming prior naming convention. Victoria 4 -> Genesis,Victoria 5->Genesis 2,Victoria 6.... Genesis 8, Victoria 8 seems to make a lot more sense especially to new customers.

Except this doesn't fit as Victoria 4 was not Genesis, and was released years prior to Genesis.

Also, the Autofit Clone with Genesis 1 was notoriously unreliable - so much so they made several scripts to "fix" it's inadequacies. This heralded true into Genesis 2. All of this was before my falling out with Daz3D, and was very much still in the loop on all the details and releases as much as any power customer over there was.

"We are gonna make you re-buy everything again and again?" First who is making anyone buy anything? Most of this content is firmly in the want and not need category of commodity. The items you bought for prior generations will always work on the figures they were designed for. A lot can be transferred to newer figures and well if you would like to have those products that cannot be transferred but need to be entirely rebuilt by the vendor for a newer generation figure. Yes you may choose to purchase the item if you would like to.

I disagree with your minimization of my statement and stand by what I said. I do not care to get into debates over minutia or semantics as this is already derailing the thread. It is fact that items made for earlier figures, while they can be transferred or auto-fit depending on tools and programs, never work as well as items made for the figure in question - also you cannot continue to use an older figure if items are made no longer available for it or discontinued. It should half also been clear my statement was an exaggeration and not directly implying they were literally forcing someone to purchase at gunpoint - but they are throwing the same outfit out onto the market again and again for each new Genesis version at full cost exploiting many buyers "need" to use the latest greatest figure when with Genesis they said this would not be the case!

 

[Ken1171]

Except this doesn't fit as Victoria 4 was not Genesis, and was released years prior to Genesis.

Victoria 4 and Michael 4 were both called "Generation 4", or just "Gen4" figures. I can clearly see the confusion if DAZ would release a Genesis 4 figure, also known as "Gen4". A similar situation happened with the release of Windows 10, when it should had been called Windows 9 instead. The problem is that it could create confusion when Windows 95 and 98 were also called Windows 9X. It's that kind of thing.

 

[Miss B]

Victoria 4 and Michael 4 were both called "Generation 4", or just "Gen4" figures. I can clearly see the confusion if DAZ would release a Genesis 4 figure, also known as "Gen4". A similar situation happened with the release of Windows 10, when it should had been called Windows 9 instead. The problem is that it could create confusion when Windows 95 and 98 were also called Windows 9X. It's that kind of thing.

Yes, I always thought that's why they skipped to Genesis 7, as everyone tends to abbreviate, so it would be very confusing.

 

[Ken1171]

Yes, I always thought that's why they skipped to Genesis 7, as everyone tends to abbreviate, so it would be very confusing.

I think the main reason they jumped all the way to 8 was because of the Genesis and Victoria/Aiko/Micheal mismatching numbers. It was very hard to remember that Victoria 5 was based on Genesis 1, and Victoria 6 was on Genesis 2. Now Victoria 8 is on Genesis 8, which is simpler and easier to remember.

 

[Miss B]

Now Victoria 8 is on Genesis 8, which is simpler and easier to remember.

Very true.

 

[Chris]

Let's be careful here please. A couple of you ought to at least try to let some of this conversation roll off your backs and move ahead.

Thank you.

 

[Willowisp]

Thank you Chris.

Could we leave the genesis discussion out of this? This thread is about Content Paradise, after all. Daz3d as a marketplace is relevant to the discussion, genesis isn't.

 

[Hornet3d]

My apologies to anyone who feels I have helped draw this thread off course. I have already made my views clear so unless there is a significant change to the topic of CP closing I will move into lurk mode. If I have really annoyed anyone I am happy to try and resolve any hurt feelings but can we please do it via site mail.

 

[Hornet3d]

Hey at least I am not the one that brought up "tit"s

Just because I disagree with you doesn't make it personal, so please accept my apologies if my approach in defending my own points of view has come across to anyone as abrasive.

Thanks, although it was a typo on my part that is clearly what my subconscious had in mind when it got me to type it.

No abrasion seen on my part, good debate is how you get to see other people's view and maybe change your own, in this case our views are not a million miles apart. I think such debates only prove how passionate people can get and providing it is kept under control being passionate about anything is usually a force for good.

 

[Willowisp]

Hey at least I am not the one that brought up "tit"s

Just because I disagree with you doesn't make it personal, so please accept my apologies if my approach in defending my own points of view has come across to anyone as abrasive.

I prefer boobies myself

 

[Chris]

Thank you folks. Much appreciated.