COF Freebie Den

[FairyFantastic]

very good hun

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

A little bit of tweaking on the front of the waistband/bottom area of the shirt... Poser cloth sim test, diffuse colors only - no shaders or materials. Some improvement, but not enough yet.

I may delete the entire waistband and just re-do it. LOL

 

[Miss B]

Is the waistband a separate mat zone, or is there an actual seam there? You can still have a waistband effect with just a different mat zone, though I would probably call it bottom trim, as it's not really at her waist.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

Is the waistband a separate mat zone, or is there an actual seam there? You can still have a waistband effect with just a different mat zone, though I would probably call it bottom trim, as it's not really at her waist.

It is a separate mat zone, yes. Actually, three different zones - a narrow trim at top and bottom, and a thick band in the center. But there is also a seam there as well, at the top of the first trim where it meets the main body.

And I always heard that band around the bottom of a shirt referred to as a waistband. Trim usually refers to a much more narrow strip of material. But that could just be my area where I grew up, too.

 

[Lorraine]

Waistband down here too.

 

[Miss B]

No, I've heard folks refer to something like that as a waistband, but as a daughter of a seamstress, I grew up thinking a waistband was the band around the top of a skirt or pair of pants, which is at the waist.

I'm curious though, why the seam there? That's probably what's giving you the problem. I wouldn't put a seam there, or around the neckline. It may just be me, but I don't see the necessity for those kinds of seams.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

No, I've heard folks refer to something like that as a waistband, but as a daughter of a seamstress, I grew up thinking a waistband was the band around the top of a skirt or pair of pants, which is at the waist.

That does sure explain it.

I'm curious though, why the seam there? That's probably what's giving you the problem. I wouldn't put a seam there, or around the neckline. It may just be me, but I don't see the necessity for those kinds of seams.

Because if I don't have seams there, the uv map is completely unusable. Also, most shirts have seams in this location, and I am finding that at least in Blender, the closer one can get to real world seam layouts, the better the uv map is when you map the object.

Also, though, the seams are not the cause. I thought that myself, but if you look at the collar/neck, the mesh breaks apart on that area also when cloth simmed. And it is not breaking near a seam, but up near the top, center/front of the collar, where there is no seam at all. So, I don't think it's seam related, but possibly more related to the fact that those areas (collar, waistband, cuffs) have an extra layer of polys on the inside to give the cloth some real thickness and avoid the paper doll clothing appearance. I'd bet if I removed that inner layer of polys, the cloth would hold up better and not break apart. I just don't want the shirt to look like paper is all.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

Here's what I mean on the collar :

There is a seam at the very base of the collar (the green mat zone is the Collar Low Trim). But there are no seams in the blue, pink, or yellow material zones.

So I think it might be related to the extra layer of polys in those areas. I'll remove them and run a test and see what happens. LOL

Note that the yellow area (which is the Collar High Trim material zone) should be on the top of the neck, not dipping down into the other zones like that, too.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

A couple of conformer tests before I go back into Blender and work on the collar and waistband again. These are DS tests; I can't rig my way out of a cardboard box in Poser yet.

And a test on the neck bend... no hair because I needed to see the collar. Collar, armpits, and wrists are usually my worst areas on bending with a conformer... and this seems to hold up as a conformer. I just really also want to get it suitable for use as dynamic as well...

Ok.. back into Blender now.

 

[Miss B]

So, I don't think it's seam related, but possibly more related to the fact that those areas (collar, waistband, cuffs) have an extra layer of polys on the inside to give the cloth some real thickness and avoid the paper doll clothing appearance. I'd bet if I removed that inner layer of polys, the cloth would hold up better and not break apart. I just don't want the shirt to look like paper is all.

OK, that was going to be my next question, as I adjusted Sanbie's original mesh of the Cutie Pie Dress in Blender to have that exact same look, though I did it because I couldn't texture Sanbie's UV Map because her turned in mesh wasn't showing on the UV Map of her mesh. It was hiding behind the front facing polys.

I also have had problems simming the new mesh because of issues with the very top of the bodice and the shoulder straps so, although I'm not happy you're having this problem, rest assured you are not alone.

 

[Gadget Girl]

No, I've heard folks refer to something like that as a waistband, but as a daughter of a seamstress, I grew up thinking a waistband was the band around the top of a skirt or pair of pants, which is at the waist.

Yeah, as a seamstress myself I'd have to agree that the waistband is on skirts or pants. Looking at the really nice textured version of the sweater I'd call that a hem (although I don't knit, and it's not really a hem so . . .. ) but otherwise I'd call it trim, which isn't always thin. Of course as this is virtual clothing, I'd call it what make sense to you.

Also, though, the seams are not the cause. I thought that myself, but if you look at the collar/neck, the mesh breaks apart on that area also when cloth simmed. And it is not breaking near a seam, but up near the top, center/front of the collar, where there is no seam at all. So, I don't think it's seam related, but possibly more related to the fact that those areas (collar, waistband, cuffs) have an extra layer of polys on the inside to give the cloth some real thickness and avoid the paper doll clothing appearance. I'd bet if I removed that inner layer of polys, the cloth would hold up better and not break apart. I just don't want the shirt to look like paper is all.

If you do have an inner layer of polygons there, that is probably exactly the problem. Cloth simulations in Poser try to lay the backface of the cloth surface against the front face of the collision object.

If you're trying to avoid it looking thin there, you might try extruding? the polygons there. I'm only a very basic molder, so I may not be thinking about it right, but basically adding like a shelf around the top so that the collar is sort of like a bracket [

I don't know if that makes sense, but this is looking really good, and I like all the material zones, so the it can be textured a lot of different ways.

 

[Miss B]

If you're trying to avoid it looking thin there, you might try extruding? the polygons there. I'm only a very basic molder, so I may not be thinking about it right, but basically adding like a shelf around the top so that the collar is sort of like a bracket [

I don't know if that makes sense, but this is looking really good, and I like all the material zones, so the it can be textured a lot of different ways.

You know GG, you and I are on the same wave length, because I was just thinking the same thing. Shelly did that with her Basics 2 set for Dawn. The shorter short-sleeved top has that kind of bottom, as well as the short sleeves. Seliah, take a look at her 2nd promo for that set, and you'll see what I mean. I think that's the look GG is describing, and maybe the answer to what you're trying to do.

Of course, Shelly's is conforming and not dynamic, but it might work.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

If you do have an inner layer of polygons there, that is probably exactly the problem. Cloth simulations in Poser try to lay the backface of the cloth surface against the front face of the collision object.

Yes, that's what I'm thinking. I did add a very small bit of a smoothing modifier to the mesh in Blender to thicken it up around those areas. It was just looking like paper before doing that.

And yeah, that's kind of what it looked like to me as well with the sim - as if it was trying to collide the inner layer of polys with the front-facing layer. Especially as the problem is not happening anywhere else on the shirt, except for the areas where I do have that second layer.

The conformer tests held up very well. So I think what I may end up doing in order to get a usable dynamic is distributing one that does not have the inner layer of polys, and then distributing the conformer DUF that does. I think that there's a setting in the cloth room to affect thickness of the material on a sim, isn't there? I admit I only have done a couple of Poser cloth sims like... ever... and they're all in this thread with Dawn. LOL Still learning my way around the cloth room.

You know GG, you and I are on the same wave length, because I was just thinking the same thing. Shelly did that with her Basics 2 set for Dawn. The shorter short-sleeved top has that kind of bottom, as well as the short sleeves. Seliah, take a look at her 2nd promo for that set, and you'll see what I mean. I think that's the look GG is describing, and maybe the answer to what you're trying to do.

Of course, Shelly's is conforming and not dynamic, but it might work.

Yep. I think the way to go on this one is going to be a single-layer polys for dynamic use, and the dual-layer for conformer. The second layer of polys is only in the collar/waistband (or trim for the seamstresses in the house ), and the cuffs of the sleeves. And the quick conformer tests I did, it worked fine, so I'm just going to yank that second layer of polys out for the dynamic version.

Quick question. LOL. For distributing something intended for the Poser cloth room - do I just save it out as a .pp2 file, or is there a different file type that I should be using? I could just distribute the OBJ and mention on the download page that the OBJ is for use as dynamics for those who want it... but realistically speaking here, I'm not looking at trying to rig this in Poser, so you folks are the main reason I am trying to get it working properly for the cloth room.

 

[Gadget Girl]

I think that there's a setting in the cloth room to affect thickness of the material on a sim, isn't there? I admit I only have done a couple of Poser cloth sims like... ever... and they're all in this thread with Dawn. LOL Still learning my way around the cloth room.

There is a setting, but as I understand it, it just makes the cloth act thicker for the simulation. Of course I could be wrong, it might make it look thicker in other ways, especially if you have subdivided.

Quick question. LOL. For distributing something intended for the Poser cloth room - do I just save it out as a .pp2 file, or is there a different file type that I should be using?

Yep, that's all you'll need to do. Basically the 'proper' way to distribute a dynamic item in Poser is just as a prop. So the .pp2 file is just fine.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

There is a setting, but as I understand it, it just makes the cloth act thicker for the simulation. Of course I could be wrong, it might make it look thicker in other ways, especially if you have subdivided.

Alright. Thanks. That's something I'll have to toy with later on.... let's see how fast I can really break my own mesh, right? LOL!

Yep, that's all you'll need to do. Basically the 'proper' way to distribute a dynamic item in Poser is just as a prop. So the .pp2 file is just fine.

Alright, cool. Much obliged. Should I just save it as a smart prop? That way folks don't have to worry about parenting it before running a sim?

 

[Miss B]

I'm used to parenting dynamic clothing so that's not a problem for me, but I suppose it would save a step, so might be appreciated.

If, however, the item could be worn by a different, but similarly built, character, then I don't know if smart propping it would be good. Just a thought.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

I haven't tried it anyone but Dawn, to be honest. I'll just save it out as a standard pp2, I think. Poser might throw a tizzy if someone tried to load it on a figure that didn't have the same body part names as Dawn and Dusk do, I suppose. LOL

 

[Miss B]

Good idea Seliah. You can't go wrong that way.