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Clothing the scaled body

Discussion in '3D Content Development' started by Darryl, Apr 19, 2016.

  1. Darryl

    Darryl Eager

    Not sure where to put this so I'm trying it here.

    I've been experimenting with body scaling on Dawn in Poser. I can scale most body parts without a problem except for the hip. Scale the hip and the whole figure distorts. I CAN adjust the pelvis below and the abdomen above, usually on the x or z axis. In which case the hip follows more or less. Conforming clothing seems to get confused by this though and the hip portion refuses to scale along with the rest of the clothing. I generally check all the follow morphs, scales, endpoints etc., but the clothes tend to get crumpled looking. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
  2. Glitterati3D

    Glitterati3D Dances with Bees

    Using PP14 if I scale the hip the entire figure scales.

    Screen shot - hip scaled to 59%

    And a render of the image
  3. Glitterati3D

    Glitterati3D Dances with Bees

    And, if you are talking about a conformed dress that is grouped to the hip (or pelvis in Dawn's case) only, yes, you will see some distortion in that case.

    The best way to deal with that is to use the morph brush and smooth the transition. It's usually very quick and easy to do.
  4. Glitterati3D

    Glitterati3D Dances with Bees

    Here, I used a vastly scaled Dawn and put my At The Office set on her.

    First image shows intense crushing because of the scaling.

    And, then a few minutes with the morph brush using smooth.
    Pendraia likes this.
  5. Darryl

    Darryl Eager

    Hi Glitterati, thanks for posting. I was thinking of something a bit more customized. Let me get an image together to show you what I mean.
  6. Darryl

    Darryl Eager

    Dawn Scaling.jpg

    In this image the figure on the right is scaled on the x axis at the pelvis and abdomen. I also dialed the legs longer and torso shorter. Plus some y scaling in the abdomen. You can see where the swim suit distorts around the hip area.

    I found I was able to tweak the suit a bit if I turned off the "follow morphs" checkbox and adjusted it by hand though I didn't try that in this picture. Just wondered why the clothes didn't scale as smoothly as the figure.
    Pendraia likes this.
  7. Glitterati3D

    Glitterati3D Dances with Bees

    The proper way to do a morph like that is to do so in a modeler or something like ZBrush then you can copy the injected morph into the clothing.
  8. Pendraia

    Pendraia Seasoned Contributing Artist

    Looks good Traci!
  9. Darryl

    Darryl Eager

    So I should be able to save the figure out as an Obj or morph target as well I guess. I've fiddled in Blender but don't know it well so am avoiding it for now. I'll experiment some more. Thanks for your help.
  10. Lyrra Madril

    Lyrra Madril Eager Contributing Artist

    When scaling you need to remember the poser figure internal hierarchy. That is to say .. poser thinks of cr2 figures as separate parts hooked together in a tree like arrangement. Every part has a Parent and can have one or many Children parts. Hip is the top of the tree - so Hip has no Parent in the figure. Moving or scaling Hip affects the entire figure, and this is universal across all rigged poser figures with Hip parts. Children parts effect their parents, this is the rule behind why bodyhandles and skirt handles work.

    Also, when scaling individual parts more than 110% or less than 90% it is a good idea to roll some of that scaling along to the parts above and below it in the hierarchy. In other words, if I want to scale the Thighs and Shins to 150% on Y, I also want to scale Pelvis/Hip to 110 and Foot to 110. This makes for a smoother transition and less issues when bending. Poser has gotten better about bending scaled parts, but it can still get screwy on extreme scales.

    When Scaling a skirt always check for handles! if your skirt is crumpling, copy the scaling into the child parts of the skirt (usually set to hip) and see if that helps

    You can save scaling changes in a pose - but it takes a little hacking around to do it.

    You can also hook scaling changes up to a dial, like I did for my Shape of Dawn product using Poser's Dependant Parameter Editor. Then this dial can be exported as an injectable 'morph'. Poser 11's INJ export handles these fairly well, as I found when making my Pauline Plus morph set which includes a range of scaling dials along with traditional morphs.

    Pendraia likes this.
  11. Ken1171

    Ken1171 Distinguished Contributing Artist

    The reason why the conforming outfit is not following on the hip is because it didn't include Poser's "Smoothing Scale zones" when it was rigged. Until the release of Poser 11, all previous versions did NOT transfer the smoothing scale zones in either the Setup Room not the newer Fitting Room. So only conforming outfits created with Poser 11 will automatically work with body scaling. My brand new hero outfit for Dawn is an example of that, where *nothing* needs to be done for ANY kinds of body scaling, no matter in what amount, the outfit will always follow, including the hip.

    This is probably the reason why so many content creators may not even know Poser had internal smoothing scale zones in the first place. Everything we have created until Poser 11 has never taken advantage of them, unless we create them in the outfits by hand, which is not for the faint of heart because it is still tied to the old "spheres-based rigging", even in weight mapped figures. So Poser now supports painting weight maps for body rigging, but not entirely for body scaling. You will soon realize you still have to mess around with the spherical zones and range influence gizmos, or else your painted weight maps for body scaling will have no effect, or can't be painted at all.

    To make it worse, even Poser 11 can't transfer ONLY the Smoothing Scale zones to your existing outfits without overwriting the rigging and ruining everything. The way it is now, it's either overwrite everything or nothing. I have already submitted my suggestion to SMS to allow transferring ONLY the Smoothing Scale zones as a separate option. It has been sitting there for a while, and I will keep pushing it until they do it. LOL It is worth mentioning that none of my products support body scaling natively, and my upcoming hero suit will be the FIRST one to support it by default. In the same way, none of the existing HiveWire 3D outfits support body scaling for the same reasons.

    As it stands, the solution is to either create your own Smoothing Scale zones and paint the weights the hard way, while having to deal with these pesky legacy Poser rigging spheres and gizmos, OR use Poser 11's "Copy Zones From", which will automatically transfer all the Smoothing Scale zones to your outfit, but you will most likely have to adjust the rigging because it will be messed up.
    Pendraia likes this.
  12. Darryl

    Darryl Eager

    Thanks Lyrra and Ken for the info. Sorry I didn't reply sooner, didn't realize you'd posted. I don't guess the fit room would be of help would it? If not it's back to dynamics and second skins. I'll have to check out that superhero suit though Ken. Maybe I could get some milage by retexturing. Sounds like a good feature to promote. I wonder if any other Dawn/Dusk outfits are set up for scaling like that.
  13. Ken1171

    Ken1171 Distinguished Contributing Artist

    What you need is probably Poser Pro 11. It now automatically resolves all these missing scaling and bulging maps if you start the rigging with it. At some point SMS will eventually implement my suggestion and allow copying ONLY the smoothing scale zones, but as it stands it is still all or nothing. When that happens, I will be happy to upgrade all my products to support body scaling. ^^
  14. Lyrra Madril

    Lyrra Madril Eager Contributing Artist

    well there is a way to force insert jp settings from one figure to another, via a hacked pz2. You should be able to isolate the smoo's and insert/override just those. I have set up jp overrides to go with extreme morphs, before poser supported dynamic joint centers, so its not too difficult with PoserFileEditor as long as you really understand your internal file syntax.

  15. Darryl

    Darryl Eager

    Second skin to the rescue. Here is an update of the previous figure using a second skin. Works well enough for fiddling with the scaling and such if you just want her have some clothes on. Surprisingly the edges of the outfit are actually raised up from the skin like real clothes. Didn't think that was possible. I can always use dynamics or retexture the skin for different looks as well, which is more up my alley.

    The figure is from an old file of mine and I'm not sure whether it's the original Dawn or SR2. I ended up adding morphs from both versions leaving me a messy figure. Is there a way to tell what version I'm using from within the Poser file? I'd like to import a fresh Dawn SR2 and copy over the changes, I thought I read somewhere that you can can copy and paste the dial parameters from one figure to another. Anyone familiar with this?

    SkylaFull copy.jpg
    Pendraia likes this.
  16. Gadget Girl

    Gadget Girl Extraordinary Contributing Artist

    I don't know how you figure out which Dawn it is from the file. However, if you select the body of the original figure and then choose copy from the edit menu, you can then select the body of the second figure, and simply paste in the parameter changes.
  17. Ken1171

    Ken1171 Distinguished Contributing Artist

    Well, Dawn SE has a different texture, and also a few extra face morphs that didn't exist in SR-2.
  18. Darryl

    Darryl Eager

    Thanks Ken, but I don't have Dawn SE. I have the original Dawn (SR-0?) and SR-2. They have different morph packs. Or at least after injecting the kaboodle I had a bunch or duplicates with no actual dials.

    @Gadget Girl, that worked well. Another handy feature I was never aware of. Selecting the body only copied the morphs though, not the scaling. I had to copy/paste those body parts individually for it to catch the scaling. I had to select them individually to scale them in the first place though, so it makes sense. Cool.
  19. Ken1171

    Ken1171 Distinguished Contributing Artist

    Oh I get it now, sorry. Dawn has the original, and then SR-1 and SR-2. I don't remember this exactly, but I think SR-2 has some new thigh JCMs too. If you want a clean slate, just remove Dawn and install the SR-2.
  20. Gadget Girl

    Gadget Girl Extraordinary Contributing Artist

    Glad I could help. Luckily since most morphs are on the body, you can at least copy those over without too much work.

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