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3DL materials not previewing correctly

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
So I'm not a big DS user, and I don't know if this is normal (I know in Poser there are certain things that just won't preview correctly).

I have a black option for the shoes I'm working on, which is basically the white option with the Diffuse Color changed. It renders just fine, but it previews as white. What's odd to me is that I have other versions of the material using other colors, and they preview the way I'd expect. Here you can see how the spot render is totally different from the the preview:



Like I said, I don't know if that's normal in DS, or if I'm doing something wrong. I worry it's the later because I did have some other materials look strange in the preview, and it was a problem on the shader itself.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
Actually, while I'm at it, let me throw in one other issue I'm having with 3DL ;) Which again may or may not be an issue. Actually in this case I know Poser can do something similar when you have tiny things in a scene. There's also a set of bows that go with the shoes. The bow on the left foot for Luna just looks terrible with a couple of the 3DL materials, at least until you move it. I've figured out it's catching some crazy shadows, from what, I can't tell you, because there's nothing else in the scene. However, if I move it, the bad shadows go away. It's also the same material being used on the other bow, which shares the same geometry.

Any idea what in my material is causing the crazy bad shadows from nothing? It only happens on two of the materials, but one of them was the base for the other materials, so it's strange that it isn't happening on more.



Could it be the normal map?
 

Doodle Designs

Eager
Contributing Artist
As far as your first question goes, I would suspect that your Ambient Color is white (or another light color) and the Ambient Strength is set to 100% or another high percentage. Try using white with a strength setting of 15%. That's what I usually use.
 

Doodle Designs

Eager
Contributing Artist
Here's a screen shot showing the 3DL settings for the black plastic cap. Depending on the look you are going for, the Lighting Model could be either Glossy Plastic or Plastic.



Here's the same thing, but with the Ambient Strength set to 100%. As you can see, the cap looks white before it's rendered.



This could be the same problem you're having in the second post.
 

DigiDotz

Adventurous
On the black shadows/marks
There was a bug in Daz Studio 4.8 where this would happen sometimes, with the item close to world center.
otherwise check the normals
 

Doodle Designs

Eager
Contributing Artist
Dont know - but I always have ambient color set to black 100%
I always change the ambient materials that default to black to white/15% because if the ambient color is black, the render looks too gray.

V4 hi-res default of black/15% compared to white/15%.


An object comparing black/15% and white/15%.

I guess it's a matter of personal preference. :)
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
Thanks for all the things to try guys, I really appreciate it. I'll get back to you with what works.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
Okay so after much playing around I figured out a few things. First yes, you were right, it was the ambient color that was making things turn up white when they weren't. I ended up setting the ambient to black at a 100 % because I couldn't really tell the difference in the renders, but in the preview that looked truer to how they rendered.

And yes my shadows were from the normal maps. I had used those in part because the displacement maps I had didn't seem to be doing anything, but it turns out that was because I hadn't turned displacement on. Things are looking much better now.

Thanks for your help guys.
 

tparo

Brilliant
QAV-BEE
You shouldn't really be using ambient at anything but black unless you are going for a glowing effect, using ambient is an old trick its not necessary now especially with the shaders that DS comes bundled with such as AoA or the uber ones.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
You shouldn't really be using ambient at anything but black unless you are going for a glowing effect, using ambient is an old trick its not necessary now especially with the shaders that DS comes bundled with such as AoA or the uber ones.
The interesting this is I didn't know I was using ambient at all. These all started with the Daz Uber Shader and me adding in my image maps. I don't know if that means that's the default for that material, I'll have to check next time I'm setting stuff up from scratch.
 

Pendraia

Seasoned
Contributing Artist
I've always thought of Ambient as the shadow colour not sure if that's correct but I will often change it to a darker shade of whatever colour the object is. I would never have thought of using white...interesting thread.

Ambient color : Ambient color is the color of an object where it is in shadow. This color is what the object reflects when illuminated by ambient light rather than direct light. Diffuse color : Diffuse color is the most instinctive meaning of the color of an object.Jul 24, 2009 found here
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
I've always thought of Ambient as the shadow colour not sure if that's correct but I will often change it to a darker shade of whatever colour the object is. I would never have thought of using white...interesting thread.

Ambient color : Ambient color is the color of an object where it is in shadow. This color is what the object reflects when illuminated by ambient light rather than direct light. Diffuse color : Diffuse color is the most instinctive meaning of the color of an object.Jul 24, 2009 found here
Hmm, thanks for looking that up. I'm still having some trouble with the materials, although they are much improved now that I've set the Ambient color to black. However, I am getting some strange shadows. I may play more with the Ambient color setting because that may still be what's happening.
 

Pendraia

Seasoned
Contributing Artist
No problem, I started to wonder if what I was doing was correct but according to that definition it is...I don't like totally black shadows as that's what I was taught when learning PS and prefer to go with a darker shade of the colour on the object.
What sort of strange shadows are you getting and what lights are you using to test with?

I have a set by Adam over at Daz that is an uber preset with totally white light. Different lights will give different results these were designed specifically to test mats...not sure if I can find the link for you though. I originally found them over at Daz Forums.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
What sort of strange shadows are you getting and what lights are you using to test with?
So I'm just using the default lights. I should look, I know doubt have other light sets. And the more I look, the more it seems its possible they are not really shadows, but an outline? I'm not sure. It's the bows that seem to have this issue as you can see:


The dark spots are definitely thicker on the undersides of things, which makes me think it's a shadow issue. It also changes when I turn on SubD and looks more like an outline:



Which brings up another question. I know if I save something with subD already on in Poser, people who have Poser 9 won't be able to use it. Is there a reason not to save things with subD on by default in DS?
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
:thankyou2: Thanks so much for that link to the lights. First off it confirmed the issue I was having was the shadows, and that was due to the lighting. I get what I'd expect with these lights. Also, as cute as the poser's avatar is, it's very distracting if you're trying to read complicate 3d stuff.
 

Pendraia

Seasoned
Contributing Artist
I'm glad it fixed it for you...I was told that you should never test with DS default lighting. So I always use his lights...he's a very cluey individual and the thread is very useful if you want to understand Uber lighting in DS. I keep meaning to read it more thoroughly and actually give some of it a go. Never enough time though...and yes very cute avatar.
 
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