I Just Wanted to Post an Image Thread

[VortigensBane]

@Lyne Thanks so much! If the (art)work doesn't produce an emotional response, then in my opinion, the artist wasted their time. So glad to hear you like my work.

 

[eclark1894]

I like the hand placement.

 

[Ken1171]

@Lyne Thanks so much! If the (art)work doesn't produce an emotional response, then in my opinion, the artist wasted their time. So glad to hear you like my work.

I once wrote an article about art being something that produces an emotional response on people, and it was highly criticized by the community at DeviantArt. Some people understood that if their galleries don't get much attention, my definition would mean that they are bad artists, or that what they do is not art. The truth is that nobody can define art without someone getting hurt. In addition, movie studios spend hundreds of millions to make a film that ends up flopping, because nobody could predict people's reaction to it. Art is undefinable, and people's reactions to it are purely subjective. It cannot be qualified or quantified. I just make art for myself, and if other people come to like it, it's pure chance. Don't sweat over it.

 

[Hornet3d]

I once wrote an article about art being something that produces an emotional response on people, and it was highly criticized by the community at DeviantArt. Some people understood that if their galleries don't get much attention, my definition would mean that they are bad artists, or that what they do is not art. The truth is that nobody can define art without someone getting hurt. In addition, movie studios spend hundreds of millions to make a film that ends up flopping, because nobody could predict people's reaction to it. Art is undefinable, and people's reactions to it are purely subjective. It cannot be qualified or quantified. I just make art for myself, and if other people come to like it, it's pure chance. Don't sweat over it.

I would agree, if fact I would say it is not only subjective but it is time dependent, for example there are things I would not have reacted in my youth that now, very much in my old age, bring a lump to my throat or a tear to my eye. It could be I am more sensitive in my old age or that I have a lot more experiences that a certain pieces of art might use trigger invoke a response. I guess it would also depend in what mood I my be in at the time I view the art. Having said all of that it is a very thought provoking render.

 

[Lyne]

Oh I would agree that art is subjective. I just felt like letting VB know that his art affects me deeply. I do try to complement people whose art especially moves me, but I also complement people for particular elements in their art that were really well done, etc.

 

[Lyne]

@jvrenderer very nicely done! Very realistic in fact I think that's a photo of a dog, right?

 

[Zaarin]

His hair is "Summer Wet Hair for the Genesis 3 Females" (refit to the Genesis 3 Male) and her dress is the "Belle Dress for Genesis 3 Females" -- both from DAZ. I fiddled with both textures. The dress was run through VWD Cloth and Hair; the dress pose doesn't come with the dress.

Ah, for Genesis. That explains why I didn't recognize it. Once again, stunning work.

I once wrote an article about art being something that produces an emotional response on people, and it was highly criticized by the community at DeviantArt. Some people understood that if their galleries don't get much attention, my definition would mean that they are bad artists, or that what they do is not art. The truth is that nobody can define art without someone getting hurt. In addition, movie studios spend hundreds of millions to make a film that ends up flopping, because nobody could predict people's reaction to it. Art is undefinable, and people's reactions to it are purely subjective. It cannot be qualified or quantified. I just make art for myself, and if other people come to like it, it's pure chance. Don't sweat over it.

When I was younger I was a firm believer in "art for art's sake," but as I've grown older I've moved into a more conservative Platonic view that both Truth and Beauty are integral to art. Of course, both Truth and Beauty are as difficult to define as Art. My visceral definition of Art would be anything that speaks to my soul instead of my mind, anything that doesn't feel like waiting*.

*"We live only to experience beauty. All else is a form of waiting."--Kahlil Gibran (if you haven't read The Prophet and "Sand and Foam," do it! You won't regret it.)

 

[Ken1171]

The concept of art can be intriguing. For a long time, photography was not considered art, and more recently, there was a time when 3D and all digital art had the same fate. When I joined DeviantArt a decade ago, they said 3D wasn't art, and Anime/manga was not a style. I was flamed for years and many 3D artists left. I stood my ground and fought for years for the right to have a "3D" category that could go beyond "objects". The only 3D category was "objects", so I could not post characters as such. Nowadays the 3D category includes [almost] the same variety of category themes as other medias, and they don't flame me anymore - but new 3D artists don't know how hard it was in the past. They just take the media acceptance for granted.

All this because there is no common ground when defining what "art" is, or is not. It's difficult to understand how 3D couldn't be "art" when all feature movies nowadays rely heavily on it, and almost all animated movies are fully 3D. One could argue that what Pixar does is highly artistic, but then a lot of people out there don't know the difference between 3D and a drawing - even if I explain. I am done trying to define art. Haha

 

[Miss B]

You know, a friend of mine tried to get me on dA years ago when we were both still doing 2D art, and I never did. She thought I was being silly, as my reasoning was I didn't like the name of the site, as there was nothing "deviant" about the artwork I was doing. I still wouldn't be a member there.

Of course, that doesn't mean I haven't found some nice tutorials and such there, but it's definitely not for me and my artwork. Then again, as a freelance web designer, I have several web sites of my own, so don't really need it.

 

[Zaarin]

The concept of art can be intriguing. For a long time, photography was not considered art, and more recently, there was a time when 3D and all digital art had the same fate. When I joined DeviantArt a decade ago, they said 3D wasn't art, and Anime/manga was not a style. I was flamed for years and many 3D artists left. I stood my ground and fought for years for the right to have a "3D" category that could go beyond "objects". The only 3D category was "objects", so I could not post characters as such. Nowadays the 3D category includes [almost] the same variety of category themes as other medias, and they don't flame me anymore - but new 3D artists don't know how hard it was in the past. They just take the media acceptance for granted.

All this because there is no common ground when defining what "art" is, or is not. It's difficult to understand how 3D couldn't be "art" when all feature movies nowadays rely heavily on it, and almost all animated movies are fully 3D. One could argue that what Pixar does is highly artistic, but then a lot of people out there don't know the difference between 3D and a drawing - even if I explain. I am done trying to define art. Haha

I love Pixar and there are some great 3D movies out there, but I won't lie: I would give just about anything for a renaissance of traditional animation. 3D can be beautiful, but it ages quickly. That may be less of an issue for cutting edge films--I don't think Zootopia or Tangled will become ugly in the near future--but traditional animation is timeless. Sure, there are plenty of things that date Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, but the animation itself is as gorgeous now as it was in 1937. I miss films like The Iron Giant, Titan A.E., and the Disney movies of the 90s. Based on an interview I read with Brad Bird (The Iron Giant, The Incredibles, etc.), a lot of artists, producers, and directors want to make more traditionally animated films, but the corporate execs won't spring for it because The Princess and the Frog flopped and Frozen was a runaway success (completely ignoring that the reasons for their success or failure have very little to do with their animation style [and for the record, I actually like The Princess and the Frog better than Frozen, but I can see why Frozen was more successful]). I have to admit that my biggest frustration with Poser is how difficult it is to develop a distinctive style. It's not impossible--artists like Fabiana, Nightwish, Surreality, and others have been very successful at developing a beautiful and recognizably unique style--but if you don't have traditional art skills beyond 3D (or even 3D skills related to modeling and/or texturing) it's very difficult.

You know, a friend of mine tried to get me on dA years ago when we were both still doing 2D art, and I never did. She thought I was being silly, as my reasoning was I didn't like the name of the site, as there was nothing "deviant" about the artwork I was doing. I still wouldn't be a member there.

Of course, that doesn't mean I haven't found some nice tutorials and such there, but it's definitely not for me and my artwork. Then again, as a freelance web designer, I have several web sites of my own, so don't really need it.

That's the same reason why I was so reticent to join deviantArt. I'm glad I did, though, as it's where I discovered some of my favorite modern artists, like Pascal Campion. My artwork doesn't attract a lot of attention at dA--if I want comments I post at Rendo or here--but it still gets some foot traffic. I watch a lot more than I post at dA, but (relevant to Ken's post) not much of it is 3D, I confess.

 

[jvrenderer]

@jvrenderer very nicely done! Very realistic in fact I think that's a photo of a dog, right?

Thanks, that's good ole Daz Millennium Dog.

Keira Revisited

 

[Miss B]

. . . but (relevant to Ken's post) not much of it is 3D, I confess.

True, a number of the tutorials and assets I've got there are fractals based. I'm a fractals freak, but try not to get into it too much, or I'd be lost for weeks on end.

 

[Mythocentric]

Lilith.

 

[Miss B]

Oh, she would've been perfect for Creatures of the Night Render Challenge.

 

[Hornet3d]

Oh I would agree that art is subjective. I just felt like letting VB know that his art affects me deeply. I do try to complement people whose art especially moves me, but I also complement people for particular elements in their art that were really well done, etc.

I think it is great if art does generate emotions, and full credit to you for taking the time to provide such positive feedback in a world that, all too often, concentrates on the negative side of life. My comments weren't related to your post at all really, more generated by the comment "If the (art)work doesn't produce an emotional response, then in my opinion, the artist wasted their time.". I have no argument with that statement either. at least with the intent. I always try to tell a story or produce an emotion with my renders, whether it be sadness, laughter or the spectrum emotions in between. I think what I was trying to say was that, as art is so subjective and the generation of any emotion would be dependant on so many factors, it would be difficult, if not impossible to judge any art a failure.

It is just a personal viewpoint, but I would hate for someone not to try and produce a piece of art due to a fear of failure. I would imagine the vast majority of my renders fails generate any emotion, despite my best intentions, the only time I know that there is an exception was when someone takes the time to say one of my renders has made them laugh. Even if the feedback is critical it shows it has produced some reaction in the viewer. I produce renders that I like to produce but I also enjoy sharing some of them and believe that, for art to be a success it needs an audience, and for artists to continue to do good work and improve it needs feedback which I why I love it here at Hivewire so much. Good art commented on by good people is what an art community is all about, such a shame we cannot find the same accord in the wider aspects of life.

 

[Gadget Girl]

I have to admit that my biggest frustration with Poser is how difficult it is to develop a distinctive style. It's not impossible--artists like Fabiana, Nightwish, Surreality, and others have been very successful at developing a beautiful and recognizably unique style--but if you don't have traditional art skills beyond 3D (or even 3D skills related to modeling and/or texturing) it's very difficult.

I have to agree this can be a challenge partly because you are not starting with original content each time, but using existing figures etc. However the art I grew up doing is theatre, specifically classical theatre, and there is always an ongoing tension in theatre (unless you're the first company to produce a play) because the tools you are using have been used before. In fact it's not just the script, but often the costumes and set pieces, because when you finish one play you don't just throw everything out, you keep the stuff you think you might use again someday.

Last night I just closed in The Crucible by Arthur Miller. We did it in the time period the play was set in, but there's been a big push recently to modernize the play (there was a major production earlier this year on Broadway set in private girl's school). I didn't see that production, and can't say how it was, but what I do know is how many people in the audience told us how much they loved our production even though we were't going for a 'style' but just trying to be true to the emotions and ideas of the text.

It's different I know, and I've never formally studied graphic design or painting, so I may be missing or misunderstanding a lot about the idea of a style when it comes to this sort of art. What I do know is that it's very hard to make art for other people and have it be good (this is the difficulty of commercial art, not that some people don't do wonderful jobs of it), but if you make art for yourself, others are far more likely to find something in it.

 

[jecnodde]

I have to admit that my biggest frustration with Poser is how difficult it is to develop a distinctive style. It's not impossible--artists like Fabiana, Nightwish, Surreality, and others have been very successful at developing a beautiful and recognizably unique style--but if you don't have traditional art skills beyond 3D (or even 3D skills related to modeling and/or texturing) it's very difficult.

yeah I soo get this one. when I strated to upload art to online galleries I started with my own handpainted images. They allways got comments like "Great art, love the style" or "Very unique looking piece"
When I started to upload images done in poser and vue - I got still the great art thing - but nothing about unique style. I remeber when I relized this, I was in tears for days. Then I collected myself and started to work on a way to combine 3d renders with my way of paint 2d...I have getting really close to something that feels like me
Ok I havent uploaded anything in this styke, mostly since it takes a lot more time to do - and well I'm bad at planing. So often I simple have no time transform a 3d render into my style....haha sight, i guess its how things get when you decide to enter 3 diffrent contest and challange during 2 weeks...haha

 

[Zaarin]

I have to agree this can be a challenge partly because you are not starting with original content each time, but using existing figures etc. However the art I grew up doing is theatre, specifically classical theatre, and there is always an ongoing tension in theatre (unless you're the first company to produce a play) because the tools you are using have been used before. In fact it's not just the script, but often the costumes and set pieces, because when you finish one play you don't just throw everything out, you keep the stuff you think you might use again someday.

Last night I just closed in The Crucible by Arthur Miller. We did it in the time period the play was set in, but there's been a big push recently to modernize the play (there was a major production earlier this year on Broadway set in private girl's school). I didn't see that production, and can't say how it was, but what I do know is how many people in the audience told us how much they loved our production even though we were't going for a 'style' but just trying to be true to the emotions and ideas of the text.

It's different I know, and I've never formally studied graphic design or painting, so I may be missing or misunderstanding a lot about the idea of a style when it comes to this sort of art. What I do know is that it's very hard to make art for other people and have it be good (this is the difficulty of commercial art, not that some people don't do wonderful jobs of it), but if you make art for yourself, others are far more likely to find something in it.

I don't have a background in theatre, but I do have a background in literature (which means I've actually read a lot more plays than I've seen...). But I always find it interesting how different stagings of the same play can be unique. For example, within a few weeks of each other I saw Joss Whedon's Much Ado About Nothing and The Globe's Much Ado About Nothing (in a cinema--alas, the Globe is on the other side of the world). I also saw David Tennant's Hamlet, The Globe's Hamlet, and a local production of Hamlet set in Cuba instead of Denmark (a reminder that some things don't always work the way you intended: when "Fortinbras" shows up as Teddy Roosevelt and the entire audience breaks out laughing at the end of a tragedy...yeah, didn't work. ). I really really want to see Avery Brooks' 2008 performance as Willie Loman in Death of a Salesman, but it seems the play was never recorded. Anyway, you make a good point about using the same materials but making it one's own.

 

[Ken1171]

Personally, I think Poser models are WAY more versatile and flexible than people give them credit for. After posting at DA for 10 years, people have been claiming they recognized something I made straight from the tiny thumbnail, way before they see the actual render. Chances are I have developed a specific character and rendering style of my own. Since 2013 I have been using Dawn almost exclusively, and I only have about a dozen clothings and morphs for her - but my characters look nothing like the default Dawn, and people in general don't recognize what figure I used. For example, CatsEyes was created entirely inside Poser with magnets and the Morphing Tool. It is so easy to customize a character in Poser that there are many cases where I create a whole new face and/or body shape just for a single render.

The bottom line is that Poser is just a tool, and we can go a long way from the stock figures using just what comes with it. The tool doesn't make the artist - we cannot blame stock figures for what people do with them. The art is to take these tools and make the best out of them. This is one point where DS doesn't work for me - it lacks something like the Morphing Tool, and I can't go far without it. Just like stock figures, I see pose presets as great starring points for where I want to get. It's very rare when a stock pose or character material can be used without editing of some kind. Sometimes just a little change can go a long way - at least to me. For example, adding a bump map to a hair model makes a world of difference in the final render. So much that sometimes people will comment on that alone. The devil is in the little things.

I left Renderosity and joined DA because I wanted to grow as an artist. I have all my background in computer science and I needed to get involved and interact with artists from all kinds of media. That's how DA has become my new home ever since. I would not have progressed as much if I would stick to a mostly 3D community like RO. I have learned a LOT from the artistic community feedback, be it good or bad. Over 10 years have passed, and I feel like I have finally grown as an artist, and the feedback I get nowadays is more positive than negative. When I started, all I could do was to render stock models and use pose presets, but like in any other media, that was just a start. Most 2D artists I knew started with imitating someone else's style, and I think this is the equivalent of using stock models like we do. The thing is not to settle with that.

 

[Mythocentric]

Oh, she would've been perfect for Creatures of the Night Render Challenge.

Thank you Miss B. To be honest I’d forgotten I had this young lady (Possessed by SV7 [seven]) until last night and started playing with simple light set-ups. The Muse struck after reading a reference to Lilith in the Bible, (which I hasten to point out I can read without bursting into flames contrary to the opinion of certain people).She’s an interesting and enigmatic character.