Method in the madness

[Hornet3d]

We each have a different way of working based on experience and the sort of renders we are trying to create. For example there are many different ways to set up our content and over the years I have seen many different examples of how others have set up their runtimes. What I have not seen so often is how others work towards their renders.

For example I suspect I work very differently to others due to the fact I am trying to tell a story of a time traveller but my mind does not work through the parts of the story in a linear manner. Despite this I have to try and keep the renders consistent to some extent while trying to get the characters to grow as the story progresses. For example the main female character will not keep the same hair style from start to finish but if she is staying in one particular time zone it will look wrong if the hair style remains roughly the same but is starts of short then becomes longer only to revert back to the short again a few renders on.

I have a number of hair styles I have purchased over the years but a smaller number of outfits that I use the most. To try and keep some consistency when I get a new hair product I work to get it to look the way I want it to look. Once I have done this I then set up a series of base renders with that hair style and the outfits I intend to use. In that way I always have a base starting point so that I can change the scene but the style will at least start at a common point.

There may be a better way to do this but this is what I have become used to over the years but I wonder how different this is and what other methods people use to meet their goals.

My most recent hair purchase was HR-230 from Ali so I am starting a new base collection for the hair style, I have one in a dress and CKV-01 by Ken 1171 designs.

 

[Doug Hunter]

There may be a better way to do this but this is what I have become used to over the years but I wonder how different this is and what other methods people use to meet their goals.

Hmm, a method. I should try one of those

As always Hornet I love your work and reading your stories.
I reckon whatever you are doing it works. Keep it up

 

[AnimaGemini]

@Hornet3d
I like to tell stories too. Most of the time I never publish them, just show them to friends or family members.
For now I try to Illustrate a fantasy story with a party mixed with elves , Dwarf ,human, Gnomes ,Wizzard, Cleric etc...
My method to stay continuous is simple. Before I begin to Illustrate my story, I set up an extra runtime with the outfits and hair, character for the hero's . This makes sure I never use by accident other character or hair which just dont fit.
For the rest of the story or character I use what ever fit the storyline.

 

[Hornet3d]

@Hornet3d
I like to tell stories too. Most of the time I never publish them, just show them to friends or family members.
For now I try to Illustrate a fantasy story with a party mixed with elves , Dwarf ,human, Gnomes ,Wizzard, Cleric etc...
My method to stay continuous is simple. Before I begin to Illustrate my story, I set up an extra runtime with the outfits and hair, character for the hero's . This makes sure I never use by accident other character or hair which just dont fit.
For the rest of the story or character I use what ever fit the storyline.

I am not sure that the story I have in mind will ever really see the light of day outside the family the closet it ever gets is that I have a photo book printed each year and I tend to group the renders into places in the timeline they would fit in the story line.

I like the idea of having a separate runtime at the moment I save the scenes in folders such as base, fantasy,modern day and sci fi and finally scenes. The scenes folder allows me to pick up sub plot renders and carry on where I left off. Separate runtimes would certainly speed up the creation process.

 

[Hornet3d]

Hmm, a method. I should try one of those

As always Hornet I love your work and reading your stories.
I reckon whatever you are doing it works. Keep it up

Thanks for the support, support is always welcome but it is especially welcome from someone who knows the software well enough to know what is involved in creating such renders. I should add you outfits, particularly Alyssa and Borghild, always have a base created with any hair style which is why they figure so often in my renders.

 

[English Bob]

You know what they say - the only normal people are the ones you don't know very well.

I'm trying to tell stories too. One technique I've found invaluable is to make use of Poser's animation palette, even though I'm not making animations. I often have a need to use the same characters and environment to generate several images, and treating it as an animation makes this easy because you only need to set up the scene contents once, then it's 'just' a question of posing and camera angles. I can then run off a whole series of renders unattended if I want to.

If a complex environment is going to be used with different sets of characters, I save it as an empty scene, complete with the lighting set up ready for use. And like you, I have library folders containing the characters, as well as their wardrobe and any other props that are associated with them. I also tend to keep text files with details of what I've used in the way of morphs, textures etc. as a back-up so it's relatively easy to transfer a character (as I have done recently, moving V4 characters to the weight mapped V4 for instance). I've also been getting more and more into making my own stuff to fit what's in my head, whether it's kitbashing props, morphing, remapping and/or retexturing. This is distinct from actual content creation, because the end product only has to be good enough for what you want it for, not necessarily suitable for distribution.

Another trick I use is to save different postwork techniques which I've used to indicate various stages of a story, such as night vs. day, flashbacks and so on. That gives some consistency so the reader has some signals as to what's going on without having to add captions.

Showing the same character at different stages of their life is a big challenge. Factors such as ageing, even the results of having been in a fight etc. are hard to do, and on that score I can only offer kudos for what you've achieved! I suppose the time travel theme gives you some leeway in certain areas, but must be a problem in others!

Interesting thread. Thanks for letting me ramble on.

 

[Hornet3d]

You know what they say - the only normal people are the ones you don't know very well.

I'm trying to tell stories too. One technique I've found invaluable is to make use of Poser's animation palette, even though I'm not making animations. I often have a need to use the same characters and environment to generate several images, and treating it as an animation makes this easy because you only need to set up the scene contents once, then it's 'just' a question of posing and camera angles. I can then run off a whole series of renders unattended if I want to.

If a complex environment is going to be used with different sets of characters, I save it as an empty scene, complete with the lighting set up ready for use. And like you, I have library folders containing the characters, as well as their wardrobe and any other props that are associated with them. I also tend to keep text files with details of what I've used in the way of morphs, textures etc. as a back-up so it's relatively easy to transfer a character (as I have done recently, moving V4 characters to the weight mapped V4 for instance). I've also been getting more and more into making my own stuff to fit what's in my head, whether it's kitbashing props, morphing, remapping and/or retexturing. This is distinct from actual content creation, because the end product only has to be good enough for what you want it for, not necessarily suitable for distribution.

Another trick I use is to save different postwork techniques which I've used to indicate various stages of a story, such as night vs. day, flashbacks and so on. That gives some consistency so the reader has some signals as to what's going on without having to add captions.

Showing the same character at different stages of their life is a big challenge. Factors such as ageing, even the results of having been in a fight etc. are hard to do, and on that score I can only offer kudos for what you've achieved! I suppose the time travel theme gives you some leeway in certain areas, but must be a problem in others!

Interesting thread. Thanks for letting me ramble on.

Thank you for the input, saving an empty scene is a great idea that I had not thought of as is the idea of keeping details in a text file, I intend to try both. I do use animation but normally for getting the right expressions, someone noted the tip years ago in a thread and I really wish I could remember who it was so I could give them the credit. Expression are always difficult for me but even more so due to the character morph I have created as the heroine. So I set the expression at default in frame one and the expression I want in frame 30 but the frame 30 expression is normally far too extreme so I step back a frame at I time until I get the expression I want.

I tend to use post work for effects like fog and the like as I have a lot more control over the effect and if is turns out wrong I just delete the layer, much quicker than having to do a another render.

 

[English Bob]

I had not thought of as is the idea of keeping details in a text file

Great, in that case, a bit more detail on that. If you select any actor (prop, body part, whatever) in a Poser scene and press Ctrl-C you can paste the result into Notepad (other text editors are available). I generally use this on the Head and Body parts, and then add any further notes about what morphs had been injected (because that doesn't show in the text file: it records only the dial name and value).

Here's a very useful addition to that technique: you can edit out any lines you don't need, for example the expression dials in the text saved from a figure's head. The result is then a 'character reset' file which you can paste back onto the head any time, and will not remove any expressions you may have set. This technique can be extended as far as you like, e.g. by editing some of the values - I know a lot of this can be achieved by saving a pose file, but for speed and flexibility I often prefer to do it this way. As you said at the outset, everyone has their own methods and workflow.

I set the expression at default in frame one and the expression I want in frame 30

I do that too. A lot of pre-packaged expressions seem to be too exaggerated for my liking, and this is a good way of toning them down. I use the technique to mix between two different expressions, and it can be applied to any pose data such as hand poses, or even whole body poses. The animation palette allows you to pick and choose which body parts will be affected, so you can copy the legs from one pose and the arms from another for example.

I tend to use post work for effects like fog and the like as I have a lot more control over the effect and if is turns out wrong I just delete the layer, much quicker than having to do a another render.

Same here. I find blurred backgrounds are often quicker to do this way as well, since depth of field effects always take a lot longer when done at the render stage, and controlling them is easier in postwork. Not every scene is an appropriate candidate of course, and but if the foreground and background are well separated it gives good results.

 

[Hornet3d]

HR-230 bases for Alyssa and Borghild outfits from Hunter3D

 

[Hornet3d]

HR-230 base with Prae-Neuro Ourfit for Dawn by Prae.

 

[Hornet3d]

Great, in that case, a bit more detail on that. If you select any actor (prop, body part, whatever) in a Poser scene and press Ctrl-C you can paste the result into Notepad (other text editors are available). I generally use this on the Head and Body parts, and then add any further notes about what morphs had been injected (because that doesn't show in the text file: it records only the dial name and value).

Here's a very useful addition to that technique: you can edit out any lines you don't need, for example the expression dials in the text saved from a figure's head. The result is then a 'character reset' file which you can paste back onto the head any time, and will not remove any expressions you may have set. This technique can be extended as far as you like, e.g. by editing some of the values - I know a lot of this can be achieved by saving a pose file, but for speed and flexibility I often prefer to do it this way. As you said at the outset, everyone has their own methods and workflow.


I do that too. A lot of pre-packaged expressions seem to be too exaggerated for my liking, and this is a good way of toning them down. I use the technique to mix between two different expressions, and it can be applied to any pose data such as hand poses, or even whole body poses. The animation palette allows you to pick and choose which body parts will be affected, so you can copy the legs from one pose and the arms from another for example.


Same here. I find blurred backgrounds are often quicker to do this way as well, since depth of field effects always take a lot longer when done at the render stage, and controlling them is easier in postwork. Not every scene is an appropriate candidate of course, and but if the foreground and background are well separated it gives good results.

I am surprised how similar our basic technique is considering they have developed totally independent of each other. While similar in the use of some techniques your way of working is clearly far more advanced and I am keen to put those different techniques to use. Thank you for sharing your methods in such detail it has been an eye opener and very useful.

 

[AnimaGemini]

I tend to use post work for effects like fog and the like as I have a lot more control over the effect and if is turns out wrong I just delete the layer, much quicker than having to do a another render.

Fog etc..I do in Postwork too. The extra rendertime is way to much for justify it in the 3D app. Except when I use Blender or Unreal. But Poser and Daz studio ,it takes to long and the effect is not always as good as imagined.

 

[Hornet3d]

Fog etc..I do in Postwork too. The extra rendertime is way to much for justify it in the 3D app. Except when I use Blender or Unreal. But Poser and Daz studio ,it takes to long and the effect is not always as good as imagined.

I think that is the biggest problem with effects like fog in that it is hard to see in the preview how it is going to look in the render, as you say it is not always as you imagined. That can mean a series of renders that take time where as the ability to change the transparency and colour on a layer in postwork is much more responsive and easy to control.

 

[English Bob]

I am surprised how similar our basic technique is considering they have developed totally independent of each other. While similar in the use of some techniques your way of working is clearly far more advanced and I am keen to put those different techniques to use. Thank you for sharing your methods in such detail it has been an eye opener and very useful.

I think the phrase you're looking for is "Great minds think alike".

But seriously, you're very welcome. I tend to evolve a way of doing things and stick to it, which is why a lot of my solutions are rooted in the file-hacking methods that were the only way to get certain results from early Poser versions. It's a pleasure to be able to post some advice and not be answered with "actually, you can just [insert new Poser feature that I wasn't even aware existed]". I've learnt a lot that way, don't get me wrong.

 

[English Bob]

Just for fun on the postworked weather angle: Stonemason's Chinatown converted to Poser, rain added in Paint Shop Pro (it's from a PNG overlay). The reflective pavement is what takes the render time here.

 

[Miss B]

I so wish he hadn't stopped creating for Poser. He was one of my two favorite PAs at DAZ back in the day.

 

[JOdel]

He does frequently include an .obj version, but those would probably be a lot of work to get camera-ready.

 

[Miss B]

With the detailing he does on all his projects, I'm sure a huge amount of work would be necessary.

 

[Hornet3d]

I so wish he hadn't stopped creating for Poser. He was one of my two favorite PAs at DAZ back in the day.

There are quite a few vendors who stopped creating for Poser that I have to be honest and say I don't really miss them, Stonemason was not one of them. I would still be buying his products today if they worked in Poser, I loved his stuff but sadly not bad enough to move to DS to be able to use.

 

[English Bob]

I so wish he hadn't stopped creating for Poser. He was one of my two favorite PAs at DAZ back in the day.

Me too.

He does frequently include an .obj version, but those would probably be a lot of work to get camera-ready.

With the detailing he does on all his projects, I'm sure a huge amount of work would be necessary.

There are quite a few vendors who stopped creating for Poser that I have to be honest and say I don't really miss them, Stonemason was not one of them. I would still be buying his products today if they worked in Poser, I loved his stuff but sadly not bad enough to move to DS to be able to use.

All I can say is that I didn't think of it as a lot of work, and the results were worth it, don't you think? If folks are interested I could backtrack over the method I used. I bought Streets of London at the same time (I think there must have been a sale on!) but I didn't have any immediate plans for using it and it remains unconverted; that could form a useful test subject. In fact I've converted quite a few other DAZ assets since then - mostly clothing rather than props - and I think the process could be relatively simple if you're willing to install DAZ Studio. You would hardly have to know how to use it.