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WIP Shepard Robe for Dusk

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
So I've just started playing around with Marvelous designer, and so far I'm loving it. I started making a robe for Dusk. I'm envisioning something ancient Middle Eastern. Here's what I have so far.It needs some work on the draping around the legs, and I want to add some more details as I learn how to do that. But I think it's a good start for my first attempt at making clothing.
Robe.png
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I like it GG. Definitely a very good start. I'd hate to show anyone what my first attempt in MD looked like. ;)
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
Definitely a great start for a first attempt! I like it so far.
Thanks. I'm quickly realizing all the other stuff I'd have to learn to make this actually usable for others.

Thank you so much for this...I'm definitely interested :)
My first temptations was to try and make some pretty dress, but then I thought, there's not enough clothes for Dusk, and I need something like this. I thought you might be interested after seeing many of the biblical scenes you've been working on.

I like it GG. Definitely a very good start. I'd hate to show anyone what my first attempt in MD looked like. ;)
Well, I scrapped my 'first' attempt after I realized I need to go back and make some bounding boxes for Dusk if I was ever going to make the sleeves work. And actually there was a second attempt that I reserved under a different name because it was too tight fighting, but would make a great long coat for an outfit I really want to make, but I figured I learn how to do this one first.

Thanks for the support all.
 

Pendraia

Seasoned
Contributing Artist
Looks really good as a first attempt...it would also look good for other types of robes with the right textures.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
Looks really good as a first attempt...it would also look good for other types of robes with the right textures.
Thanks. I'm working on adding some trim, just so that it will have the materials zones so you can texture it either way. It's actually kind of fancy for a shepherd at the moment, but because I'm working with a white untextured Dusk in MD, it was easier to make it bright colors so I could tell how it was interacting with him. My plan is to use this as a learning project, so even though it currently works as a dynamic prop in the cloth room, I want to make it work as a conforming figure, so I can learn how. And since I'll be asking lots of questions and need advice, it'll be a free item, so you could certainly retexture it however you want.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
So I've added some trim to the robe and run into a philosophical questions about 3D clothes. First here's the trim.

And now the philosophical question. A lot of the wrinkles that you can see around the edge of the figure are just because of the low resolution mode I'm running MD in. However, there are some wrinkles at the elbows that are not, and here in lies the great question. When I bring the robe into Poser and run it through the cloth room, with Dusks arms down those wrinkles go away. Now my background is in classical theater, so I've both made and worn lots of robes like this, and if you were to hold up your arms in a zero pose you would get that wrinkle.

So the question is, when I try and convert this to conforming clothing, do I use the morph tool to smooth out the wrinkle, which doesn't look good in the zero pose, but is realistic, or do I leave it?
 

Glitterati3D

Dances with Bees
So I've added some trim to the robe and run into a philosophical questions about 3D clothes. First here's the trim.

And now the philosophical question. A lot of the wrinkles that you can see around the edge of the figure are just because of the low resolution mode I'm running MD in. However, there are some wrinkles at the elbows that are not, and here in lies the great question. When I bring the robe into Poser and run it through the cloth room, with Dusks arms down those wrinkles go away. Now my background is in classical theater, so I've both made and worn lots of robes like this, and if you were to hold up your arms in a zero pose you would get that wrinkle.

So the question is, when I try and convert this to conforming clothing, do I use the morph tool to smooth out the wrinkle, which doesn't look good in the zero pose, but is realistic, or do I leave it?
Wrinkles add realism, so you want to keep them - unless, if they are so severe they would look strange in the arm at the sides position. I know many folks who do various cloth sims in Poser, export them and use them as a morph to add wrinkles.

I would make certain there are no nasty sharp oddly shaped polygons (smoothing usually solves this) and leave them in.

When I make clothing, I usually run a low poly model through the Poser cloth room to get realistic folds, then bring it back into the modeler to finish it off and add polys.
 

skylab

Esteemed
Is there any way you could also use the first version...without the trim...as this is more like a true biblical robe. Things like fancy trim, wide cuffs, bright colors, and extra wide sleeves are details that made many robes that are already plentifully available nearly impossible to use, since middle eastern men typically didn't dress that way. Brighter colors were actually reserved for women. In the move The Nativity Story, they took such pains with authenticity that that wore clothing woven from wool from the local sheep. That movie is about the best reference for middle eastern clothing that I've ever seen. In example 8 below, you'll see colors used for women, and how they were used. Along about example 5 you'll see the colors and styles used for the magi and king...this is where you see the bright colors and fancy designs that were associated with either the rich, or those who practiced the occult. So you see, this is why that type of modification would be not something seen on a shepherd, and it's the very reason I've had to make do at times with such super plain stuff, so as not to offend. I've gotten a couple of flaming emails in the past for using, or recommending modified "wizard", or in other words, occult, robes for the above reasons. So, just sharing what experience I've had with it :)

Example 1

Example 2

Example 3

Example 4

Example 5

Example 6

Example 7

Example 8

Example 9
 
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Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I like the robes and shawls in that last photo, both for the man and the woman.
 

skylab

Esteemed
I do too, I tried to find a large version of that picture, but couldn't...the detail in the large is really nice. That's the priestly robe on the man, just normal attire when he wasn't serving in the temple. I'll look again to try to find a large version of Example 9.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
Is there any way you could also use the first version...without the trim...as this is more like a true biblical robe. Things like fancy trim, wide cuffs, bright colors, and extra wide sleeves are details that made many robes that are already plentifully available nearly impossible to use, since middle eastern men typically didn't dress that way. Brighter colors were actually reserved for women. In the move The Nativity Story, they took such pains with authenticity that that wore clothing woven from wool from the local sheep. That movie is about the best reference for middle eastern clothing that I've ever seen. In example 8 below, you'll see colors used for women, and how they were used. Along about example 5 you'll see the colors and styles used for the magi and king...this is where you see the bright colors and fancy designs that were associated with either the rich, or those who practiced the occult. So you see, this is why that type of modification would be not something seen on a shepherd, and it's the very reason I've had to make do at times with such super plain stuff, so as not to offend. I've gotten a couple of flaming emails in the past for using, or recommending modified "wizard", or in other words, occult, robes for the above reasons. So, just sharing what experience I've had with it :)
Thanks so much for all the links. Those are a huge help and give me lots of ideas. A lot of the color right now is just to make it easier to deal with and find mistakes. I was thinking I needed to do a plain version of the textures much like what you have in the second example. If my thought process is correct it should be easy to hide the trim if you don't want it. In fact now I want to know if I'm crazy so I'm going to play around with some textures in Poser and see what I can do to get that unbleached wool look.
 

skylab

Esteemed
Another photo of the lady in blue here, it's still not really large, but shows a little more of her robe. Two more large photos of the wise men here and here. The only other way I know of for you to see the costumes is through the movie, which can be viewed full screen on Youtube to give you ideas of how the robes were made. Hope this helps :)

 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
Okay, so I did some real quick playing around in the Material Room in Poser. I was pretty easily able to get it one color other than the belt. Which is turns out was a good thing to do, because I could get a better look at the folds, and where they are working the way I want, and where they are not. Also there are some odd issues with the belt when I put it through the cloth room. For some reason that creates poke through. Interestingly, looking at the pictures you've provided, belts are not really a thing, so I'm going to play around with what I get with no belt.
RobeUnposed.jpg QuickRender.jpg
 

skylab

Esteemed
I think that's a really nice robe, and is more like middle eastern culture. If it's got possibilities for several texture options, I would think it could work for several different uses. Looks great so far :)
 

skylab

Esteemed
It occurred to me after thinking about it awhile...the belt issue in the cloth room, if it's separate from the robe, may be a constraint issue...settings that tell the belt to stay in place. Just a thought? I remembered it from discussions this past week when folks were helping me with the Poser cloth room :)
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Yes, a belt like that could use constraints, and more than likely just one row across the top of the belt and one row across the bottom of the belt should do it.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
It occurred to me after thinking about it awhile...the belt issue in the cloth room, if it's separate from the robe, may be a constraint issue...settings that tell the belt to stay in place. Just a thought? I remembered it from discussions this past week when folks were helping me with the Poser cloth room :)
Yes, a belt like that could use constraints, and more than likely just one row across the top of the belt and one row across the bottom of the belt should do it.
I'm not entirely sure how 'attached' the belt is, and I think that' the problem. A similar think happened when I used constraints on it.
I think what I need to do is import it as a separate prop, then have the robe collide against it.

I have also been looking at how the robe looks with no belt, as well as examining those examples. I'm actually not sure how historically accurate those robes are, even though they look great. If you look at the first example, on I assume Joseph, you'll notice that there is a center panel to his robe that is a different color than the sides. So why is that a problem?

Clothes in this period were very square. Cloth was expensive, and even if you were weaving it yourself, it was a huge investment in time. Because of this they were very conservative with how the cut fabric so as not to waste any. The designs were therefore very square. Now that center panel is pretty much a perfect rectangle, which sounds good, except when you realize what the forces in the construction of the rest of the garment. The side panels become very wasteful as you try to cut out the arm holes.

You can see some of this in Example six which has a great view under the one woman's arm. Her robe is extremely fitted. And although they've made the stitches decorative, they are actually very functional so they can make the robe formfitting.

All that being said, these are still great inspiration. And I've been going back and forth and looking at them a lot, in part to decide how accurate I want to be.
 

skylab

Esteemed
I think in #6, if you scroll down toward the bottom of the picture, you see where it's tied on the side..so in that case, it's like an second outer garment, sorta like a modern day apron, that slips over her head and ties on. Years ago a guy on Rendo made a prayer shawl for me, the fringed garment that the men wore...today the modern day version looks more like a neck scarf...here's a pic of it...anyway, I think this is similar in design to #6, except it's full length with ties on the sides, and intended to be an outer garment. If I'm not mistaken, they pretty much lived in a tunic...worked, slept...so it would make sense to have some sort of apron. You're right about the expense and time investment, so much so that garments were used in business transactions as collateral, thus the casting of lots for the seamless garment by the Roman soldiers. Anyway...here's a pic of the tallith:

outer gament.jpg
 
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