Aylaaenas_Evenwing
Adventurous
I have to admit, hivewire and the ca's create the best 3D animals I have seen in a long time.
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Want to improve your rendering? Promos? Come join in and let's help each other out
- Thread starter Aylaaenas_Evenwing
- Start date
One of the things I had done when I was a Vendor at RuntimeDNA long ago was to create a default Promo scene. That is, I set up a scene with some basic Ray Traced Lighting, set to the size of the required Images, with the pre-chosen render settings (which I also had a few versions of different settings saved in the settings menu) but no actual content. I may add a basic figure to make preset camera positions and test light and DoF before deleting that figure and saving the base scene. I would start any new pose promos by loading up this scene and adding and clothing the figure for the set - run off all of the individual poses using this setup, then start building the main promos (which might involve more figures and different lights). In this way though, I always had a starting point for the work. I have tried updating it to HiveWire standards sizes, but some of my lights got corrupted somewhere.
For my Kitbash Starship/Vehicle Blueprints I have 2 similar default PZ3s saved in a promo folder - one scaled to fighters and tanks, and one scaled to large ships. Again, this way I have universal starting points with presets for the camera positions for different views all ready to go.
There were a lot of other tricks I had, but I have been so unable to get any work done these last few years I have forgotten a lot. I am so very far off my game right now.
For my Kitbash Starship/Vehicle Blueprints I have 2 similar default PZ3s saved in a promo folder - one scaled to fighters and tanks, and one scaled to large ships. Again, this way I have universal starting points with presets for the camera positions for different views all ready to go.
There were a lot of other tricks I had, but I have been so unable to get any work done these last few years I have forgotten a lot. I am so very far off my game right now.
That's really a great idea Kage. I think that's what some of the folks that make light sets are doing now, including their own test scenes in their packages to make things easier for those that suffer from renderitis and can't cope with setting things up properly (me 
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Kage, that's kind of what I'd like to see for HW CA's, a basic "Scene" with lights and Camera's set up for all render engines that renders beautifully in each so everyone's product renders are of a consistent quality across the board. Actually, it probably wouldn't hurt for it to be made public so the customers who have trouble with that stuff to can get the same results (even if its a paid product so whoever created it could get some payment for their effort).
Aylaaenas_Evenwing
Adventurous
This was a bit my point for this thread. So we all have the same quality promos. I think a bit of difference in the promos are okay ( different lights for instance) but standard poses for the pictures( not the main pic). Of course it would be a bit different for animals and maybe props. But for skins and characters I think it is important to have the same options so everybody has an equal quality promo and thus the customer can see there is quality in the character set.
I think for the "standard" promo images (eg: for the actual product/poses/shaders etc) the same lights (and camera) are kind of important because they can really change the way a character can look (for a camera example, the standard camera can look distorted compared to one set at a focal length of 105mm), for the main promo image and artistic promo renders it could be up to the vendor.
For example, my BeJeweled textures for the HW Horse in DS look more effective (and pretty) with a sunrise/sunset HDRi so that is what I would chose for the main/artistic promos, but if everyone had access to a standard lighting/camera scene that looked the same as possible across DS/Poser then at least they could see what it looked compared to other products using the same lighting/cameras that are a "Hivewire3D Standard"
For example, my BeJeweled textures for the HW Horse in DS look more effective (and pretty) with a sunrise/sunset HDRi so that is what I would chose for the main/artistic promos, but if everyone had access to a standard lighting/camera scene that looked the same as possible across DS/Poser then at least they could see what it looked compared to other products using the same lighting/cameras that are a "Hivewire3D Standard"
With Camera Focal Lengths it is good to keep in mind that Higher Focal Lengths will have a narrower view and an overall flatter appearance with narrower field of view, while lower Focal Lengths will have a wider field of view and greater spatial depth to them. A Focal Length of 50-55mm is generally considered comparable to Human Vision.
<35mm - Panoramic views or vies where a rich depth of the scene is desired or wanted. With these Focal Lengths objects close to the camera may take an an exaggerated or distorted perspective and depth which can be useful for enhancing Drama or creating a mood. Spatial depth is enhanced, seeming to push farther objects even farther back in space, and drawing closer objects towards the viewer. In Photography, Landscape Lenses typically are in the ranges of 20mm, 24mm, 28mm, but may go down as low as 8mm for panoramic views. A typical wide angle lens is 35mm. This range is most useful for landscapes, or to exaggerate the size of a large object such as a really at tall building or a ship of some sort.
55mm - This is generally a view comparable to human sight and depth of vision. In Photography this would be your normal, no frills lens for everyday use. This is the basic workhorse lens most often used for everyday photography and imaging. If you want to replicate a true view of how something might look in real life to a person viewing it, you will want to use a range from 45mm to 55mm.
85mm - 135mm - This range of Focal Lengths is good for Portrait work. You will generally be zoomed much closer to the subject, and the depth will be muted so it does not seem to stretch off into the distance as much. The Image will look a little flatter than with a Lower Focal Length, with objects in different areas of the image plane appearing to be closer spatially.
150mm< - This is the range of Telephoto lenses in practical photography. These are used to capture objects at a distance, and as the Focal Length of the lens increase, the spatial depth captured flattens. In real world Photography telephoto lenses may be available out to 2000mm or more - though there really is not a purpose for such a lens in Digital Imaging as to capture distant items in the image you can move the camera more readily.
Your Lens Focal Length with also affect the strength of Depth of field in the scene, if used.
<35mm - Panoramic views or vies where a rich depth of the scene is desired or wanted. With these Focal Lengths objects close to the camera may take an an exaggerated or distorted perspective and depth which can be useful for enhancing Drama or creating a mood. Spatial depth is enhanced, seeming to push farther objects even farther back in space, and drawing closer objects towards the viewer. In Photography, Landscape Lenses typically are in the ranges of 20mm, 24mm, 28mm, but may go down as low as 8mm for panoramic views. A typical wide angle lens is 35mm. This range is most useful for landscapes, or to exaggerate the size of a large object such as a really at tall building or a ship of some sort.
55mm - This is generally a view comparable to human sight and depth of vision. In Photography this would be your normal, no frills lens for everyday use. This is the basic workhorse lens most often used for everyday photography and imaging. If you want to replicate a true view of how something might look in real life to a person viewing it, you will want to use a range from 45mm to 55mm.
85mm - 135mm - This range of Focal Lengths is good for Portrait work. You will generally be zoomed much closer to the subject, and the depth will be muted so it does not seem to stretch off into the distance as much. The Image will look a little flatter than with a Lower Focal Length, with objects in different areas of the image plane appearing to be closer spatially.
150mm< - This is the range of Telephoto lenses in practical photography. These are used to capture objects at a distance, and as the Focal Length of the lens increase, the spatial depth captured flattens. In real world Photography telephoto lenses may be available out to 2000mm or more - though there really is not a purpose for such a lens in Digital Imaging as to capture distant items in the image you can move the camera more readily.
Your Lens Focal Length with also affect the strength of Depth of field in the scene, if used.
This may be of some use:
Nikon - Focal Length Explained
Nikon - Focal Length Explained
PerpetualRevision
Admirable
Just wanted to chime in as another person who finds DOF problematic for similar reasons. Except that I've never had excellent vision, and it's only getting worse with age, and renders with heavy DOF effects often make me feel like my eyes are failing even faster! Sometimes they even make me feel anxious, and I'm not easily prone to anxiety!
I've never noticed that reaction to photographs, only to renders, so that makes me wonder if what we're sensitive to is DOF that isn't done "correctly" (the way a camera would do it)? I also think it's just plain over-done simply b/c it can be done. It should be a purposeful artistic decision, not something enabled for every render!
So maybe, before enabling DOF, some folks might consider how the result could impact those with less than perfect vision?!
This forum page has some great tips.
I’m particularly interested in what makes for good Promos. As Rae134 said:
I also noticed Lisa mentioned:
And I was wondering what the sub-forum would be for.
I find that making good promos to be the greatest bottle-neck in content creation. This may not be the case for those who know how to do them well, but for me, having the opportunity to have a forum page where we could post our promos and get feedback would be invaluable.
Perhaps some people may be reluctant to get their work publicly critiqued, but I think Hivewire is a very safe community where it would work well and could only serve to improve many of our shop pages.
So I would like to reiterate what Janet said:
I’m particularly interested in what makes for good Promos. As Rae134 said:
I also noticed Lisa mentioned:
And I was wondering what the sub-forum would be for.
Is this mainly to share tips and tutorial advice? OR
Are you looking at a place where creators can open our individual sub-forum page where we could post our promos and get critiques?
I find that making good promos to be the greatest bottle-neck in content creation. This may not be the case for those who know how to do them well, but for me, having the opportunity to have a forum page where we could post our promos and get feedback would be invaluable.
Perhaps some people may be reluctant to get their work publicly critiqued, but I think Hivewire is a very safe community where it would work well and could only serve to improve many of our shop pages.
So I would like to reiterate what Janet said:
Just bought some outdated lighting rigs for Poser via DAZ2D by Colm Jackson and the other is GI Dome Holes which looks very very nice. Hopefully that will give me a leg up on how lights are set up properly in Poser to get my attempts a bit more polished! LOL
Which lighting rights of Colm's did you get? I ask because I have a couple I got when RDNA was still alive and well.
Edited to Add: OK, I just checked, and I have quite a few of his light sets, though most likely don't have them installed on this new-ish laptop. Now that you've reminded me of them, I'm probably going to have to do that.
Edited to Add: OK, I just checked, and I have quite a few of his light sets, though most likely don't have them installed on this new-ish laptop. Now that you've reminded me of them, I'm probably going to have to do that.
parkdalegardener
Adventurous
Poser lights are render engine dependent. That being said; I spent years writing about Poser lighting. I gave away light sets for firefly and superfly. It all comes down to this.
There is only one sun in the sky. It is the only light needed for exterior daylight outdoor scenes. Render inside of a dome or sphere to obtain global illumination.
Interiors are dark. They are illuminated by positional lighting. A light in every fixture in the room. The wall of the room provide the enclosed area to allow for global illumination.
Allow falloff on your lights. Inverse square is the way light works in the real world. Use it. Infinite lighting is for the Sun only and it really isn't an infinite light source. There is no such thing in the real world.
If there is nothing in the scene to reflect, don;t add those redundant reflection maps. You should be rendering in an enclosed area.
Lighting is specific to a scene. Using canned lighting for a bespoke piece of artwork is never going to work to the best effect.
If you really want to learn about Poser lighting read any book on photographic lighting. It works exactly the same way. The theory of lighting doesn't change. Posers cameras are exactly like real world cameras and treat lighting exactly the same.
Take a look at real world portrait lighting diagrams from a photography course. They will show you the standard portrait light setups; broad, short, butterfly, ect.; and that is exactly what you want to obtain. There are lighting ratios that will be shown and these are easily reproducible. Set up your "photo studio" basic portraiture scene and save the lighting rig to the library and you never have to do it again. As a bonus you will learn about fstops and depth of field as well no doubt.
Remember; Poser is a portrait studio at heart. It is specifically set up to provide a reasonable facsimile of some painters loft. Think of it and treat it accordingly.
parkdalegardener
Adventurous
I was looking for some of my old lighting tutorial stuff to no avail. I don't save things. I did find a couple of old Songbird renders from 2015 I posted in Ken's bird image thread. They are an example of Firefly outdoor lighting. One light, enclosed in a sphere, IDL enabled. Simple as that. Superfly would have the same thing without IDL as it has GI enabled by default.
For portrait lights just make a set of each type (broad, short, ect.) parented to a sphere primitive positioned so as to enclose the head of your figure of choice. Save your sphere parented lights to the library. You now have a set of universal portrait lighting. When you have finished posing your character just use the included script to Delete All Lights. Load your sphere. It will pop into the scene positioned so as to enclose your figures pretty face. Rotate sphere as necessary to achieve effect required. Make invisible. Render perfect portraiture lighting no matter the pose or position in the scene. Perfectly reproducible every time. Promo images are always lit the same way no matter the scene, character, what have you. With the sphere looking to parent to Head it will also work for animals and so on. As long as there is a Head actor.
Not knocking those that sell lighting. I know of some excellent light sets. Problem is that most of them are only good if your figure is standing tall at scene origin. Some sets include lighting for sitting as well to make up for that fact. The exception are those that come as a render studio type product.
The point however; is to have consistency no matter what you are trying to sell. The described above lighting method does that. One can also reposition the parent sphere wherever necessary and have a set studio light set for product placement. I gave such a product away years ago. It was that I was looking for earlier. I could make it again and release it, but it was originally released as the result a long thread elsewhere on light theory in 3d, Photography and the Real World. I don't care to go through that all over again but you get the idea.
Poser's lights act like real world studio lights. They are designed like old school stage lighting with flaps to moderate spillage and can happily accept a gobo. Poser's cameras are essentially the same 35mm cameras you have used till CCDs took the filmstrip away.
For portrait lights just make a set of each type (broad, short, ect.) parented to a sphere primitive positioned so as to enclose the head of your figure of choice. Save your sphere parented lights to the library. You now have a set of universal portrait lighting. When you have finished posing your character just use the included script to Delete All Lights. Load your sphere. It will pop into the scene positioned so as to enclose your figures pretty face. Rotate sphere as necessary to achieve effect required. Make invisible. Render perfect portraiture lighting no matter the pose or position in the scene. Perfectly reproducible every time. Promo images are always lit the same way no matter the scene, character, what have you. With the sphere looking to parent to Head it will also work for animals and so on. As long as there is a Head actor.
Not knocking those that sell lighting. I know of some excellent light sets. Problem is that most of them are only good if your figure is standing tall at scene origin. Some sets include lighting for sitting as well to make up for that fact. The exception are those that come as a render studio type product.
The point however; is to have consistency no matter what you are trying to sell. The described above lighting method does that. One can also reposition the parent sphere wherever necessary and have a set studio light set for product placement. I gave such a product away years ago. It was that I was looking for earlier. I could make it again and release it, but it was originally released as the result a long thread elsewhere on light theory in 3d, Photography and the Real World. I don't care to go through that all over again but you get the idea.
Poser's lights act like real world studio lights. They are designed like old school stage lighting with flaps to moderate spillage and can happily accept a gobo. Poser's cameras are essentially the same 35mm cameras you have used till CCDs took the filmstrip away.