Prop flying off when parented

[KageRyu]

I have run into a rather odd problem that I can not find the cause of. This has happened before, but it is rare, and I cannot remember how I solved it last time.

I have a prop from a set I picked up some time ago (the free Nav Table from Meshworkz)

I have laid out a complex scene (still building it actually), and as I parent items and figures into groups to try to keep some organization as I go.
When I try to parent the Nav Table to the figure that I want it grouped with, it moves and changes position (flying off into space somewhere).
When this happens with Props it is usually the result of parenting to a figure or body part that has been moved, scaled, or rotated - but in this case the master figure has not been moved, rotated, or scaled from origin - so nothing parented should move either.
As the Nac Table is a Prop, not a figure, I cannot use the Pose cam to snap to it and find it either for repositioning (nevermind I already had it placed where I wanted).

Do any of my fellow Poser Users have any insight on causes or fixes?

 

[English Bob]

I'd like the answer to this as well. I have a couple of vague hypotheses but the problem usually strikes when I'm in the middle of a project and I don't feel inclined to go off on a research tangent.

I tried parenting the Nav Table to the Poser Business Dork, but it refused to fly off. This was in Poser 11 - what version are you using? I have a feeling that parenting was improved in P11 although it still goes awry in some circumstances.

 

[KageRyu]

I have encountered this on Poser Pro (7), Poser 2012 Pro, and Poser 2014 Pro. I do not want to load this project into P11 as I know it will break other things.

I would love to hear the theories, as I could test them. Right now this project is on hold until I solve this.
As I mentioned I have encountered this with some props in the past when the figure or body part I am parenting to has been moved, rotated, or scaled. In this case, the Figure and sub parts are not altered in any way. It has always been an odity in Poser that some props parent fine and retain relative positions and scales when parenting, and others want to fly off or reset. I have already confirmed it is not a Smart Prop related issue (Some times when using Smart Props with unintended figures I need to de-smart prop them first).

 

[English Bob]

I've since tried the Nav Table in Poser 6, Poser 7 and Poser Pro 2014, using whatever figure was closest to hand, all without incident.

Vague hypothesis number 1: Some props weren't modelled at the intended size, or at a non-zero position, and have been scaled or moved using the dials before saving to the library. It's my suspicion that this can cause the flying-off syndrome, but I haven't been able to prove anything. I have a vague recollection of having to export a prop at zero position and then import the OBJ file in its place.

Vague hypothesis number 2: some props only like to be parented at frame 1 of an animation - in some versions of poser. This seems to be one of the things that's been improved in P11, but again I haven't gathered any concrete evidence.

Let's continue to share our findings on this. If the prop in question is a freebie (or we both happen to own it) we can compare notes. Sorry I don't have a better solution to offer at this stage.

 

[KageRyu]

I thought the Nav Table was part of a set, but it was a free item:
Nav Table

The figure I am parenting to is a Floor Coridoor segment from Davorama;s S.F.C.S. (old set). I might try editing the PP2 of the nav table to see if there are some troublesome hidden switches.

 

[English Bob]

The innards of the Nav Table PP2 were quite interesting, I thought. I don't know if it's significant, but the first thing I noticed was that the lines were mostly in reverse order when compared against another prop file.

I can't test this myself, because although I have the same assets I can't reproduce the problem - so here's an experiment you could try. Load the Nav Table into an empty scene in Poser, then just save it back into the library under a new name. Use that prop in place of the original and see what happens... I'm on the edge of my seat.

 

[KageRyu]

It'll be a few days before I can get back to this. I am trying to finish up a project.