• Welcome to the Community Forums at HiveWire 3D! Please note that the user name you choose for our forum will be displayed to the public. Our store was closed as January 4, 2021. You can find HiveWire 3D and Lisa's Botanicals products, as well as many of our Contributing Artists, at Renderosity. This thread lists where many are now selling their products.

How to get eyebrows or beards to follow once fitted to figure?

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
Doing some practice in ZBrush and Poser. Took going into DAZ Studio to get the proper fit to Dusk (eventually L'Homme) and then back to Poser to import the eyebrows I made. So I got them parented to Dusk's head, which works fine but I was HOPING that by injecting all the needed head morphs into the brows that they would follow along. That's a no go sadly.

PS: The brows are by NO MEANS my finest work, it was one of my early experiments using Fiber Mesh, very early, like around when Dusk 1 was released. Might be a good "toon" brow if I reshaped them a bit but not realistic enough for my tastes. See the screen shot..

Over at the 'Rosity forums here is the written tutorial they gave me to go by:

  1. Load both the beard and Dusk (or any other figure)
  2. Turn off IKs for Dusk if needed and zero the figure. If you're using L'homme, set his size morph to 0 it doesn't seem to zero with the rest
  3. Open the fitting room
  4. Start a new session using the beard as the object and Dusk (or whoever) as the goal. Uncheck zero figure (or prop) for the beard and leave it checked for Dusk
  5. click on Create figure, type a name and click ok
  6. uncheck the box for Dusk (or your figure) to clear all boxes
  7. scroll down to jaw and check that box. Everything in between will check automatically.
  8. If you grouped the beard already, leave auto group unchecked. If you didn't, check it.
  9. Select the morphs you want to transfer
  10. Click okay
  11. Go back to the pose room and click figures>copy joint zones Dusk
  12. Conform and save/use as any other figure
This method can be used for fitting anything to anyone. There are fitting tools in the fitting room, but I find it easier to pose and size the clothing close to the figure in the pose room and finalize it with the morph tool. The auto group isn't the best, but good enough for personal work, and sometimes it might work for professional quality if you're lucky.

I've tried my luck using the fitting room and the instructions above and while it resulted with a fitted eyebrow they don't follow along with Dusk's various face and brow morphs AT ALL!! The brow morphs for Dusk are completely ignored while some of the face shapes work OK but ultimately for most head shapes the brows look unacceptable. Learning this is for a for sale pack I'm working on (not these brows as explained above as they are only for testing and learning)
Any suggestions as to what to try to get them working as expected?

Thanks so much, Richard

Dusk Brows.png



Thanks so much!
 
This is something I'm curious about as well, but more specifically with eyelashes. Anceata (by Nursoda) comes with a separate eyelashes figure that will conform to the base figure, but it doesn't really follow any movement or shaping changes I make to the base figure's eyes. So it's only useful in a limited number of situations. I tried making something similar for Telka (another Nursoda figure), but I couldn't come up with a solution to the problem that the lashes don't adapt to changes in expression or face shape, at least not in the way conforming clothes would.

I suspect what makes things like lashes and eyebrows different from conforming clothes is that they're not actually based on (or shaped like) the geometry of the underlying figure. Meaning, you're not making eyebrows to go on top of eyebrow geometry that already exists, nor was I making eyelashes that would go on top of existing lash geometry in the base figure. So that would probably be why copying morphs over would have very little effect. That means the eyebrow or lashes would need its own custom morphs that are linked into the relevant morphs on the base figure (I guess that's a kind of JCM?)

It occurred to me that it might be helpful to look at how solutions for mustaches and beards work. But then I realized that the base geometry for a beard would basically be the same as the lower part of the figure's face. So, with that much similar geometry to work with, shaping and expression morphs would probably transfer OK. A mustache would be trickier b/c its "base" geometry would match a much smaller area of the figure's face, but it's been done. Eyebrows and lashes, however, would only match a much smaller area!

At least, that's as far as I got in my thinking on the subject before I got distracted by something else. I mostly make props and simple clothing for my own use (and for freebies), so there's a lot about rigging and JCMs and so on that I don't know much about. So I look forward to seeing if more experienced content creators have a solution for the problem you described!
 

KageRyu

Lost Mad Soul
Contributing Artist
If it's a figure, I would think it should work something like setting up a superconformer (?). While I have read a bit years ago, I have zero practical experience with it.
 

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
They are super conformers, drag and drop them and they are on Dusk but the head shapes and expressions and eyebrows morphs do no follow along. I THINK, IIRC that Paul helped me out a while back but from the DAZ Studio side of things and that was even confusing and laborious! One thing I can't wait for are the chips to be in Dusk 2. On Genesis 8 they have them and super conforming items like beards and eyebrows just work while in Genesis 3 with no facial chips I was back to square one with allot of extra work. Not sure if this will work as expected with L'Homme as he and La'Femme have these chips. Not sure though if they are set up similarly as Genesis 8 chips. If they are then I may have to scrap what I have planned for Dusk 1 and switch over to L'Homme for the time being. :(
 

Aylaaenas_Evenwing

Adventurous
Richard, I use a lot of fiber mesh especially in Daz studio. My biggest struggle is that you have to use a fairly thick fiber mesh in order to let it render quickly. The thinner the fibers the more grain and longer the render times.
 

Aylaaenas_Evenwing

Adventurous
In this picture I have used fiberbrows and was a nightmare to render on my 2gb gpu.

And yes this is dawn. Now I am back again and flcan work faster with my much better rig.
 

Attachments

  • file_045117b0e0a11a242b9765e79cbf113f.jpg
    file_045117b0e0a11a242b9765e79cbf113f.jpg
    315.4 KB · Views: 73

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Ohhh, what character is that? I like her. :)

Yes, a better rig is always a big plus. I had to do that 7 months ago when my 8 year old Quad Core Win 7 laptop (with no GPU) practically died. Now this new-ish Win 10 Hex Core (and GPU) makes doing anything so much faster.
 

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
Richard, I use a lot of fiber mesh especially in Daz studio. My biggest struggle is that you have to use a fairly thick fiber mesh in order to let it render quickly. The thinner the fibers the more grain and longer the render times.
Yea, I agree. I've made a ton of Fibermesh stuff but not used most of it as most were tests but I agree. It's a fine line though, if you export too thick then it looses it's realism. If you export too thin then they don't show up in the render. Very persnicketY!
 

Aylaaenas_Evenwing

Adventurous
Ohhh, what character is that? I like her. :)

Yes, a better rig is always a big plus. I had to do that 7 months ago when my 8 year old Quad Core Win 7 laptop (with no GPU) practically died. Now this new-ish Win 10 Hex Core (and GPU) makes doing anything so much faster.
I never made this one public. Made her and hair a long time ago.
 

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
That's the renderers fault though. Vray is much better at rendering fibers.
I only use built in render engines so if it's DS it's 3DL or iRAY, Poser Fire or Superfly. To further this MOST end users are only going to use the built in render engines available. Most outer render engines require sometimes hours of set up to get all the bits and pieces of a scene looking good. No thanks! LOL
 

Aylaaenas_Evenwing

Adventurous
I only use built in render engines so if it's DS it's 3DL or iRAY, Poser Fire or Superfly. To further this MOST end users are only going to use the built in render engines available. Most outer render engines require sometimes hours of set up to get all the bits and pieces of a scene looking good. No thanks! LOL
I know. I use iray most. But to be honest vray is easier to set up so is Corona render and Arnold
 

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
COOL!

I was watching a YouTube video and there was this interesting example of eyebrows made from hair cards but tinier and just skewed enough to make it look like once transmapped it would look fairly natural!
 

Aylaaenas_Evenwing

Adventurous
yes i know that one. That is a trick i have done often. Its the game model trick lol. it works but it slows down superfly a lot( not nice with trans maps lol)
 

Aylaaenas_Evenwing

Adventurous
For me it is not hard to make the eyebrows, it is the thickness i struggle most with. I want the hairs as thin as possible. I even once sculted every single hair seperatly. It was a long process haha
 

Aylaaenas_Evenwing

Adventurous
in this picture i used a lot of fibermesh, even the hair model is made out of fibermesh but made thicker strands. Unfortunately the gpu was only 2gb so i couldnt make some fibers on the cloth. The peach fuzz was taking up all the video memory. This was done in Poser superfly and took ages to render.
 

Attachments

  • file_3636638817772e42b59d74cff571fbb3.jpg
    file_3636638817772e42b59d74cff571fbb3.jpg
    708.2 KB · Views: 79

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
Eyelashes too? If so, question... how do you conform them to the eyes and have them follow along with blink morphs?
 
Top