Solved Hivewire Horse Breeds - Tail/Bone/Setup Issue in Poser Pro 11

[Kivuli]

Hi,

Not sure if this is the right place for this question, and I’m not quite sure how to fully explain this issue, so please bear with me.

I am trying to use the HiveWire Horse in Poser 11 Pro.

The Base Hivewire Horse loads without an issue, but any of the breeds built from the base horse (Draft, Friesian, etc) have a very strange glitch in the tail figure when they load in.

Here’s the ClydesdaleLongHairLoadAll figure loaded into Poser 11 Pro.



Looking at the bone structure of the tail in the setup room when the tail is loaded with a breed other than the base horse reveals something that looks off to me, in terms of the bone center/end points in relation to the end of the bone. Here is the bone setup for the above tail figure.



And here is the tail that loads with the base HiveWire horse (Harry) for comparison.



Note that the midpoint/endpoints for the bones in the tail for the base horse look normal, and line up with the end of the bone.

This problem only happens in Poser Pro 11. I have a copy of Poser Pro 2014, and the Draft Horse loads just fine, despite the tail looking the same in the setup room.





I’m not sure if this bone structure discrepancy is the reason for this issue in Poser Pro 11, or if it is completely unrelated.

Given that the figure works fine in Poser Pro 2014, and not in Poser Pro 11, I am unsure if this is an issue with the figure, or with Poser Pro 11. I am thinking it is the latter, but thought I should bring up my findings anyways.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

I can give more specific information if needed. (Poser version, settings, runtime information, measurements, etc.)

Thanks,

Kivuli

 

[Alisa]

Hi, Kivuli, and welcome to the Hive!

Don't know the answer to this, but I've sent an email to Paul so he can hopefully help.

 

[Lorraine]

And adding my welcome, Kivuli!

 

[Miss B]

I'll add my welcome to the HiveWire forums as well Kivuli.

 

[CG Cubed]

Hi Kivuli,
Welcome to the Hive!
I did not get the same results of the broken tail, when using the Load All for the Clydesdale. I did get an error asking to locate the .pmd file which is not good. I will look into this to try and find out what is happening. Not sure if you got this as well.

When viewing the Bones in the set-up room the locations of center and end points will be for the base position of the tail. If you look at the joints using the joint editor, they display the bones in the current position. We have animated joint centers for the tail so the bones follow the morphs.

Thanks for the feedback, any additional info would be appreciated to help find the issues.

 

[Kivuli]

Hi,

Thanks for the welcome, and for taking the time to try to help.

Sorry for the delay, I was subscribed to the thread, but was not set up to get emails about replies to the thread. I though nothing had happened yet...

Anyways, well if the joint centers are animated, then the parameter specifics for the center/end points for the tail aren't that helpful, are they? I have those written down if you want them, though.

Information wise, I am running Windows 10 Pro, and am running Poser 11 Pro, version 11.0.4.32600. I also have Poser Pro 2014 installed, version 10.0.5.28925.

I am using Poser Native Units as my Display Unit in Poser.

I did a clean install of the OS on a new SSD (reason unrelated to this issue) about 3 weeks ago. I installed Poser Pro 11 first, and initially linked my older content library that I use. After I tried loading some of the HW Horse Breeds, and still got the weird tail glitch, I then installed Poser Pro 2014.

Last week, when I was troubleshooting this issue more thoroughly, I re-downloaded all the HW horse packages from the Hive and installed them to a new runtime folder that only contains the HW Horse Resources.

I have not seen the .pmd file error to my knowledge.

I got this same tail glitch back when I was running Poser Pro 11 on Windows 7 Professional as well.

I get the tail glitch in Poser 11 when I load any HW Horse Figure Other than the base horse (Harry) I have tested with the Foal, Clydesdale, Beast Percheron, Friesian, Mustang, Quarter Horse and Shetland.

 

[Kivuli]

Also, another interesting discovery (maybe).

Was trying to see if I saw the .pmd error on figure load (I still don't), in Poser 11 Pro, and came across something else that caught my eye.

When I load the !HWHorseLoadAll figure, this is the message displayed in the Message Log.

However, if I load any other !HW*Horse*LoadAll Figure - (again, tested so far with the Foal, Clydesdale, Beast Percheron, Friesian, Mustang, Quarter Horse and Shetland), I get this message.

Is that expected behavior?

Again, the !!HWHorseLoadAll figure loads the tail fine, all the others mentioned have some form of broken tail when they load.

Thanks,

Kivuli

 

[CWRW]

Huh.. interesting.... I just went and made a new default scene, loaded the Draft Long Haired character, ran him through a few of my poses and so on in P11 on my Mac (El Capitan OS) Of course the Clyde doesn't have Superfly MATs yet but I had no issues. I didn't get any error messages either like you did Paul. I did get the "Import Poser document prop" comment as opposed to the Add Figure comment.

Out of curiosity (I didn't try it right now as I don't have time right now) is to do the other path of load the HW Horse all and use the INJ files for the Draft to see what happens then.
Also when I was working on Whisper (our first new Harry product with SF MATs) I had no issues. I haven't tried any of the other breeds in P11 yet.

 

[CWRW]

Forgot to add- I have NOT upgraded my version of P11 past the initial release as I have not had any issues with that version on my Mac.

 

[Kivuli]

Hi,

Thank you CWRW, for helping me with this as well. I know you have a million other things you could be doing - I've seen the work you've been doing for upcoming products here.

I just tried loading the base !HWHorseLoadAll figure, then applied the !DraftINJ, then dialed the morph to 1. That worked as expected.

I then selected the mane, tail and fetlock figures, and applied their !HWHorse***-DraftFit poses respectively.

Here is the the result of that.



None of the other figures (Mane, Tail, Fetlocks) moved to the correct position after the -DraftFit poses were applied.

Anf for comparison, here is the result of the same procedure in Poser Pro 2014, which worked flawlessly. All the figures moved and aligned properly.




Once again, no issues in PP2014.

More questions/thoughts. This problem seems to be rare, as several people here have been unable to replicate this. Let me just throw out some more thoughts/ideas as they come to me, as this issue is seeming to be program specific.

If people have multiple versions of Poser installed, how do you do it? Are all the versions of poser installed to the same hard drive? Do you keep different versions on different hard drives?

Also, do you share runtime folders between different versions of Poser, or do you have multiple copies of your runtimes for each version of Poser?

I might try reinstalling Poser Pro 11, but how do you make sure that all traces of the program are gone?

Thanks to anyone who can help me further,

Kivuli

 

[Alisa]

If people have multiple versions of Poser installed, how do you do it? Are all the versions of poser installed to the same hard drive? Do you keep different versions on different hard drives?

I have all of them installed on the same hard drive. The main apps are on my C drive, Runtimes are all external (I have a bunch that I swap back and forth depending on what I'm doing. For my personal fun use, I went to ONE Runtime years ago (I reorganize everything in the "Libraries" folders that are ones that show up in the Poser program.

I have the following installed:
Poser 6, Poser Pro 2012, Poser Pro 2014, Poser Pro 11

Also, do you share runtime folders between different versions of Poser, or do you have multiple copies of your runtimes for each version of Poser?

I share Runtime folders between ALL versions of Poser (as well as DAZ Studio). I don't have separate ones for each version.

I might try reinstalling Poser Pro 11, but how do you make sure that all traces of the program are gone?
Kivuli

Not sure if the Download Manager allows you to UN install too. Might make a copy of your Runtime folder just in case there's stuff you added and didn't remember adding.

 

[CWRW]

So I did the individual INJs to the Horse Load All for the Draft. Once I went in and conformed the mane, tail and fetlocks to the Horse then all worked just fine/normal. Did you do the "conform to" for them?

I do have regular Poser 10 as well P11 Pro on this machine. I do use the same shared folder for content for both Poser versions as well as Daz Studio (4.8) and have no issues with that on my Mac.

 

[CWRW]

Also I do NOT use the DS Download Manager or the Psoer install deal- I install EVERYTHING I ever buy for both Poser and DS by hand. That is just my preference.

 

[Alisa]

Also I do NOT use the DS Download Manager or the Psoer install deal- I install EVERYTHING I ever buy for both Poser and DS by hand. That is just my preference.

Same here. I download things via various downloaders, but I install myself.

 

[Kivuli]

So I did the individual INJs to the Horse Load All for the Draft. Once I went in and conformed the mane, tail and fetlocks to the Horse then all worked just fine/normal. Did you do the "conform to" for them?

I do have regular Poser 10 as well P11 Pro on this machine. I do use the same shared folder for content for both Poser versions as well as Daz Studio (4.8) and have no issues with that on my Mac.

Hi,

So I tried loading the base HW Horse in PP11, injecting the INJ's to the mane, tail and fetlocks. and then conformed the figures to the Horse figure, something that I did not do last time. In Poser Pro 2014, that step was not needed.

Anyways, the mane and fetlocks conformed correctly, but the tail broke again.

Same here. I download things via various downloaders, but I install myself.

I install manually as well. When I started using Poser, it was version 4, on a Mac. Manual installs were the only option for a while back then... Old habits die hard.

Also, my install setup sounds about the same as yours. Programs installed to the same drive, and a single runtime folder saved elsewhere, shared across versions

Thanks,

Kivuli

 

[Pendraia]

Welcome Kivuli!

 

[Gadget Girl]

When I load the !HWHorseLoadAll figure, this is the message displayed in the Message Log.

However, if I load any other !HW*Horse*LoadAll Figure - (again, tested so far with the Foal, Clydesdale, Beast Percheron, Friesian, Mustang, Quarter Horse and Shetland), I get this message.

Is that expected behavior?

I double checked on my version of PP11, and yes that is expected behavior. It has to do with how those files are set up, and where they go looking for the needed files which is different in each of those cases. I get the same thing, but without the tail issues.

I just tried loading the base !HWHorseLoadAll figure, then applied the !DraftINJ, then dialed the morph to 1. That worked as expected.

I then selected the mane, tail and fetlock figures, and applied their !HWHorse***-DraftFit poses respectively.

Okay I tried this to see what would happen. And there may be an issue (at least on the draft horse) with some of the morphs. I did what you did, loaded the base Harry, then added the Draft horse to him dialed the morph to 1, and tried to apply the other morphs to the fetlocks, tail, etc. I got the same result as you. I tried dialing the Draft morph on the main horse to 0 and then dialing it back up, and it didn't effect the F/M/T parts of Harry. I then went and looked for the a Draft morph on each those figures, and couldn't find it at first. I revealed hidden morphs, and then found them, and could manually dial them in. Once I had found the morphs I took a look at the dependencies. I would have expected them to have Value Operation to link them to the main breed morph on Harry, but found that they didn't. So you would have to reveal them, and then dial them in for them to work.

Interestingly this wasn't the case when I went back, and used the Load ClydesdaleLongHairLoad option. This time I could dial in the breed morph on the main part of Harry and have the F/M/T follow like they should. I check the morphs again, and found that as I changed the Breed Draft morph on Harry, the hidden Breed Draft morph on the F/M/T didn't change. I check the Keyed Dependancies on the Draft morph on Harry and found that it was effecting lots of x,y, and z offsets on the F/M/T that I hand't seen before.

So here's the end of the Keyed Dependancies I see on the breed morph when I start with the base harry and then add the draft (I couldn't find a way to show the whole list which is long).

And heres from the version of Harry where I started from the Load ClydesdaleLongHairLoad:

Now is this related to the bend you are getting in the tail? I have no idea, but I think it does mean something is happening if you try to manually load the morphs that shouldn't be.

 

[CWRW]

Wow that is just weird Kivuli! I wish I could figure out that darn tail for you! (And yes it is odd that one needs to conform the hair in P11...I know it wasn't needed in earlier versions but tried it anyway in my P11 Pro.)

 

[HaiGan]

Kind of continuing from GadgetGirl above, I did manage to get a strange tail issue by deliberately loading/morphing/conforming everything in the wrong order, ending up with a tail that had the draft morph at 1 but the horse body with the draft morph at 0- have you tried loading all the elements, injecting but not dialling the breed poses for everything, conforming the mane/tail/fetlocks and only then dialing the breed morph from the horse body dial? Pretty sure I managed to break Harry a few times before I got into the habit of not morphing until I had everything fitted and injected. Have you also tried displaying hidden parameters then setting the tail breed morph manually on the broken tail, to see if it goes away?

Also, recalling something that happened to me a while back- probably not what's happening here but easy to check- what happens if you LoadAll the figure with the built-in morphs (or otherwise have your broken-tail neddy in Poser in front of you, tail kink and all), then pose the tail (via the horse body dials)? Does the distortion remain, or does it vanish?

 

[HaiGan]

(This is how very, very broken I managed to make Harry by doing things in the wrong order. Order is REALLY IMPORTANT when adding morphs)