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So this makes me wonder. I don't have the Dawn SE, because I couldn't really figure out what she had that the SR2 didn't. I do know the textures are better, but I rarely use the default textures anyway and I mostly use SuperFly these days, so I'd have to adjust them anyways. I did notice that she has 3 other face morphs, but I have no idea what they look like so I wasn't sure if they are worth it.
I'm really curious, because I love Dawn, so part of me feels like I should update, but I don't know what the value is, and let's face it, there's always lots of 3d stuff to buy. But if I'm missing out on some great feature I'd love to know. Especially while she is on sale
Darryl
Adventurous
So this makes me wonder. I don't have the Dawn SE, because I couldn't really figure out what she had that the SR2 didn't. I do know the textures are better, but I rarely use the default textures anyway and I mostly use SuperFly these days, so I'd have to adjust them anyways. I did notice that she has 3 other face morphs, but I have no idea what they look like so I wasn't sure if they are worth it.
I'm really curious, because I love Dawn, so part of me feels like I should update, but I don't know what the value is, and let's face it, there's always lots of 3d stuff to buy. But if I'm missing out on some great feature I'd love to know. Especially while she is on sale
I think it was just the textures and face morphs. Plus she got the new hairdo and textures for her bikini. I don't think there were any deep changes to the product. Her different faces are in the promos and many people's renders.
As far as Dusk SE. I think Rodrigo is it, though perhaps not officially. Free Dusk, plus Rodrigo and his character morphs gives you pretty much what Dawn SE gave you, at a similar price. If I were HW, I'd bundle him with Dusk because he's way cool.
No, not officially or unofficially
Dusk is a HiveWire product, Rodrigo is a (excellent, of course) CA product. Different critters Welcome back, Jaki!
My opinion. The history, from when I started with all this, was that the female is released first. Then the male, which has been tweaked and improved upon... then the female is reexamined and a SE comes along. I've seen this with the 4th generation from DAZ so I don't know that Dusk really needs an SE, he's a perfect model. If there is one I'd like to see some improvements in the form of JCM's for bending and movement and perhaps a little softening of the pecs as the pec ledge is a bit strong. Other than that he's a dream model to work with.
JCM's need improvement at pecs, shoulders, elbows, knees, hip, and ankles. Buttocks need improvement to stop turning completely flat when he is posed in a crouch or seated position.
I find Dusk infuriatingly difficult to achieve realistic poses with because of the joint problems when posing. I need to get screenshots and a full list together, I know, I just haven't had time to do it yet...
UVmap could use a little attention also; matching seams between the face and head/neck is almost impossible. You can't get both zones the same scale no matter what you do in a 2D texture application - 3D te texturing is needed for that.
He is a great figure! I really do love working with Dusk. He just needs a little TLC in some areas is all.
I find Dusk infuriatingly difficult to achieve realistic poses with because of the joint problems when posing. I need to get screenshots and a full list together, I know, I just haven't had time to do it yet...
UVmap could use a little attention also; matching seams between the face and head/neck is almost impossible. You can't get both zones the same scale no matter what you do in a 2D texture application - 3D te texturing is needed for that.
He is a great figure! I really do love working with Dusk. He just needs a little TLC in some areas is all.
Well to be honest the head and neck thing has been going on for a long while now. Most of DAZ3D's figures have this issue too. I WOULD be nice to have an alternative UV that evens things out and see how popular it is for the end user. I think most want the best detail they can get, esp for closeup shots. Too much is sacrificed when trying to do either one UV of the entire figure. I wonder though if there was a way to split the UV maps like so> Head / Torso, Limbs, Legs, Inner Mouth, Eyes, Nails. Keeping the main three at the same resolution. Not sure it could be done to the end users satisfaction but then again taking a chance on such a thing might be ground breaking and then again it could be a no go for many or most.
I think all that's needed for the pecs is just a softening of the pec ledge, it's really a bit strong. From all the examples of some of the work that's come out of DAZ lately the attention to detail is really eye catching. Male-M3dia just released a new morph for G3M that's really great (Landon) I know Chris is so busy with content creation that taking these figures to their next level should be on someone else's plate to expand on what can be done with the figures. It would be nice to attract someone that's got the skills to do that. I'm OK but I'm far from being as talented as Male-M3dia.
There are some JCM's that could use some TLC for sure. My main niggle is the wrist / hand bend one. It leaves the hand looking a bit puffy on top when the hand is bend all the way down. I've made some correction morphs but I really wish I knew how to introduce them to only work when the end user wanted them to work and not a dial in thing just a switch that turns on extra JCM's when desired. Not sure if that's even possible.
I think all that's needed for the pecs is just a softening of the pec ledge, it's really a bit strong. From all the examples of some of the work that's come out of DAZ lately the attention to detail is really eye catching. Male-M3dia just released a new morph for G3M that's really great (Landon) I know Chris is so busy with content creation that taking these figures to their next level should be on someone else's plate to expand on what can be done with the figures. It would be nice to attract someone that's got the skills to do that. I'm OK but I'm far from being as talented as Male-M3dia.
There are some JCM's that could use some TLC for sure. My main niggle is the wrist / hand bend one. It leaves the hand looking a bit puffy on top when the hand is bend all the way down. I've made some correction morphs but I really wish I knew how to introduce them to only work when the end user wanted them to work and not a dial in thing just a switch that turns on extra JCM's when desired. Not sure if that's even possible.
Well, even if it's just a dial-in thing, it still leaves the end user the ability to engage those correction morphs if they need them when posing the figure.
Agreed about the UV - and totally agreed about whose plate it should go on. This is one of those areas that I really want to learn how to do, it's just beyond my skill at the moment, otherwise I would already have been tackling it.
Agreed about the UV - and totally agreed about whose plate it should go on. This is one of those areas that I really want to learn how to do, it's just beyond my skill at the moment, otherwise I would already have been tackling it.
Glitterati3D
Dances with Bees
JCM's need improvement at pecs, shoulders, elbows, knees, hip, and ankles. Buttocks need improvement to stop turning completely flat when he is posed in a crouch or seated position.
I find Dusk infuriatingly difficult to achieve realistic poses with because of the joint problems when posing. I need to get screenshots and a full list together, I know, I just haven't had time to do it yet...
UVmap could use a little attention also; matching seams between the face and head/neck is almost impossible. You can't get both zones the same scale no matter what you do in a 2D texture application - 3D te texturing is needed for that.
He is a great figure! I really do love working with Dusk. He just needs a little TLC in some areas is all.
Posing is the least of it. I have learned how to work around most of Dusk's issues, except for those fantasy eyelashes. Rigging clothing for Dusk is frustratingly painful and complicated to rig. I am finally acquainted with most of the quirks, but I'm completely stumped by the Fantasy eyelashes.
I see more riggers giving up than fighting all the quirks all the way through.
I just came back from a 4 day out of town trip, but before I left, I re-rigged a shirt for Dusk the 4th time. I get all the way through the refinement rigging, add morphs and discover an issue that needs to go all the way back to the modeler and square one.
skylab
Esteemed
I would echo Seliah's points concerning posing issues. I've also wondered about the eyelashes, and default pec and shoulder size which I'm sure make content creation a challenge. It would seem these should have been considered as add-ons, or with dial-in capability, rather than part of the base model. His nearly 7 ft height also creates compatibility issues with standard size props, vehicles, and other similar models. And...if something could be done to "man up" his face a little...I think this "first impression" carries weight with the users. Speaking as one who has given away a lot of freebies for all the male models...I see a lot of response of course for the DAZ models, but Apollo and Steve have done well also...but the same folks at ShareCG who like all the other just simply have not responded as much to Dusk. He's a good model...but something has just not clicked as far as marketing, and a good indicator is when you can't even give stuff away. It grieves me to see this happening, and I'm not sure what else can be done from an advertising perspective....and that's what freebies are, primarily an advertising tool. He had the best response during the western themes...and I used Rodrigo for those because Rodrigo makes Dusk appear more like the manly DAZ models...I was curious if it would make a difference, and it did...so it left me concluding that this affects Dusk's user acceptance. I realize I'm not a content creator, nor do I have a thorough technical knowledge of the product, but I thought I should speak up as one who has been out there with the users, and seen the downloading stats. Again, I don't want this to come across as negative...rather, I'm hoping to cheer you all on, and hoping this serves as a constructive suggestion for improvement. Let's make Dusk 2, or Dusk SE, really rock this time....hey, Mike 6 and 7 are just that...it took that many versions to begin to get it right
Hmm... I have to say - wow. I didn't realize he was that hard to rig for. Is it just like that in Poser, or is the DS rigging just as difficult for him? It's a telltale sign when more riggers give up rather than follow it through.
I really do think the figures are good. I think they just need a bit of time and improvements... as has been pointed out - even the Michaels and Victorias took some years to get to where they are now, so I don't think anyone is expecting an overnight perfect solution.
I think I need to get back into Blender once my other projects have calmed down, and see what I can do about getting a better handle on morphs and such..
Glitterati3D
Dances with Bees
I can't answer that question about DS specifically. I don't use DS. I do know that it doesn't take much time (relatively speaking) for my partner to do the Poser to DS conversion, but all the rigging is done and tested before it goes to her.
This is my 4th rigged shirt for Dusk (Poser rigging). I was inspired by Nataani to attempt a Native American from the Pacific Northwest "costume" for him. Now, if I can figure out that danged eyelash issue, I can complete the hooded cape as well for it.
Oh, gosh, that's beautiful, Glitter!! I hope you can figure out the cape issue... I could see some coastal batiks on that, too. Is the fringe on the sleeves a separate material zone?
If you need to; you could always leave the hood itself off. With the exception of the Arctic and Sub-Arctic tribes, many Natives used wrap-around blankets rather than hooded garments...
Yeah. I sure hope you can figure out the issue with the eyelashes. That's really lovely. I assume from your remarks that they're interfering somehow with the rigging?
Studio does have the Transfer Utility, and that's how I did my Genesis sweater for the Christmas giveaway on Sanbie's site. But the transfer utility only goes just so far as well, and especially for long tunics, trench coats, etc, it's not nearly enough. Which... is why I haven't done anything like that yet; I have to really learn how to rig manually before I can attempt stuff like that for DS.
If you need to; you could always leave the hood itself off. With the exception of the Arctic and Sub-Arctic tribes, many Natives used wrap-around blankets rather than hooded garments...
Yeah. I sure hope you can figure out the issue with the eyelashes. That's really lovely. I assume from your remarks that they're interfering somehow with the rigging?
Studio does have the Transfer Utility, and that's how I did my Genesis sweater for the Christmas giveaway on Sanbie's site. But the transfer utility only goes just so far as well, and especially for long tunics, trench coats, etc, it's not nearly enough. Which... is why I haven't done anything like that yet; I have to really learn how to rig manually before I can attempt stuff like that for DS.
That's such a cool outfit for him. I like the textures and fringe. I'm hearing that you're having troubles rigging the cape because of the eyelashes? They distort the cape when you apply morphs, right? What could be causing that?
Glitterati3D
Dances with Bees
Yes, there are 2 layers of fringe which each have their own material zones, plus the connector of the fringe to the sleeve (I was thinking that area needed to be braided).
I did a hood down morph before I found the eyelash issue, so I am thinking I can just export it as an object and start from scratch that way if I have to. But the hood looks sooooooooo nice! I hate to give up the idea without some effort to figure it out.
Yes, I posted about it here: Dusk issue - head rigging and on a Facebook group, but still no assist with ideas.
I've been doing some playing with long garment rigging for Dawn and really coming up with some good rigging on long gowns that bend properly between the thigh and shin. I was interrupted with my experiments for the trip, but I'll continue and publish it if it works as well as it has so far. It's not hard, just time consuming and requires some patience to get it right.
You are correct. It's only when applying a morph to Dusk's head that the issue comes into play. I've rigged all the posing and the hood and cape moves beautifully as weight mapping is excellent for a cape. I would never have done a cape in spherical rigging because the arms and hands were just unmanageable, but with weight mapping, they really move nicely with the figure.
I don't know the cause but do remember that it existed with Dawn as well, but was fixed in some version (SR1, I believe). I just can't recall what the "fix" was and I searched the DAWN CR2 and can't seem to figure it out. There's been so much upheaval in the Poser forums lately, I can't even find the old posts on it when it became evident in Dawn.
Glitterati3D
Dances with Bees
I did a hooded cape for DawnSR2/SE and it rigged beautifully with no Fantasy Eyelash issue. This is DawnSR2 with Fabiana's Oriana morphs invoked. No fantasy lash issue here.
