• Welcome to the Community Forums at HiveWire 3D! Please note that the user name you choose for our forum will be displayed to the public. Our store was closed as January 4, 2021. You can find HiveWire 3D and Lisa's Botanicals products, as well as many of our Contributing Artists, at Renderosity. This thread lists where many are now selling their products. Renderosity is generously putting products which were purchased at HiveWire 3D and are now sold at their store into customer accounts by gifting them. This is not an overnight process so please be patient, if you have already emailed them about this. If you have NOT emailed them, please see the 2nd post in this thread for instructions on what you need to do

Dawn 2.0 Underway

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Would like to see that . Where can I find this?
If I recall correctly (and i seem to be having problems doing that of late, isn't there an Orianna character set for V4 out there somewhere?
Or was that Orianna hair? See......mo brain! :(
OK I was so disappointed in my lack of memory I went looking for her and found her at DAZ and her real name is Orianne and she also has a nice hair. Wonder if the two looks (V4 and Dawn) are similar?
Hey Carman, Fabiana has most of her 3D products in her store at Renderosity, so that's probably where you should look for it. Oh, and I believe I spelled her name wrong, as there's only one "n", so I believe Oriana For Dawn is the full name of the product.
 

Rae134

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I don't have Oriana tho she is lovely but I do have Elisa and I do use her open lips option a fair bit (love that pose!)
 

Janet

Dances with Bees
Contributing Artist
We received some early feedback and suggestions from Steve Corder/3D Universe. He said something similar to tparo, which is to be more generic with her shaping. That he had to work hard to get the Dawn unique shaping out of his characters for her.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this. How does having a more generic figure make it easier to create characters?
 

Dreamer

Dream Weaver Designs
*We will create an additional new UV layout to service supporting artists expectations.
Ugh my brain is on strike. I keep meaning to ask does this mean a new UV layout that would require all current textures to be
remapped?
 

Hornet3d

Wise
Ah I just remembered something I miss having in Dawn, (at lest I don't recall seeing it), having left and right expression morphs ie smile left/right frown left/right. This can be handy for making more individual expressions rather than ones that tend to all look the same :)

Dawn certainly has some left and right smile options, I have used them often in the past. I think however they may be under the the mouth morphs rather than in with the expressions. I have a render running at the moment but as soon as that is finished I will take a look and update.
 

Chris

HW3D President
Staff member
Co-Founder
Cool but please do add morphs to show some articulation of the spinal bones when bent over to make it look more realistic.

We'll see what we can do. As far as the articulation that will be handled in our rigging. If you're looking for some Spinous processes to be apparent, we can do so much with the current mesh, otherwise that might be best handled with normal maps.

I like your thought process however. We'll certainly keep this in mind.
 

Hornet3d

Wise
Ah I just remembered something I miss having in Dawn, (at lest I don't recall seeing it), having left and right expression morphs ie smile left/right frown left/right. This can be handy for making more individual expressions rather than ones that tend to all look the same :)

As far as the mouth is concerned there are left and right versions for things like closed smile, mouth lip bite, mouth contempt and others. They are listed under Dawn body, Control, mouth. There are also left and right options under brows to help build an expression. I am not sure but I think the expression morphs are multi function in that they work on more than one part of the face like surprise will affect the lips, brow and eyes. The individual controls work on just one aspect at a time, as they should.

I also use the expression morphs from Nightsong which has loads of left and right options, they are listed under the head rather than the body.
 

kobaltkween

Brilliant
Contributing Artist
Just to say, I don't find a real need for fewer poles or tris. I find Dawn sculpts and subdivides beautifully as it is. I would love to see her topology become even more flexible and sculptable, but I don't see losing important edge loops and structures as adding to that the way many others claim happens in the abstract. I'm still dumbfounded by so many claiming that anatomy based edgeloops make a figure less flexible when Dawn's have made her _hands down_ the easiest figure I've worked with (and I've sculpted Posette, all the Vickies up to V4, Dina, Maya Doll, A3, Antonia, PE, and many others). And when you've shown her morph into a horse, a dragon, and panther. I'm looking forward to your improvements in topology and bending, but I want to be _very_ clear that I haven't been at all displeased with Dawn 1.0 in those respects.

I think that you guys sound like you're incorporating important advances into Dawn 2.0. Just don't get too caught up in what people say. I hope you focus more on what most vendors actually make and customers actually buy. Not just the mouthy few of us who post too much in forums.;):p

At the end of the day, the general populace holds back for one major reason: They're not seeing an aesthetic they want to make their own, _and_ can imagine doing so. I always go back to the dynamic dresses by corvas that spent _months_ on Rendo's best seller list. They had no UV maps. They had no special dynamic groups. They used Poser's default stretchy, slippy, unrealistic cloth settings. They had no thickness, and no detail. They had flood fill material options. And not only are they _still_ unsurpassed in terms of the heights _and_ longevity of their popularity, but every time I brought these qualities up, I would get told how great they were by users as if I was saying they weren't. And this happened last not long before I stopped posting at Rendo, long after my own clothes were out, so it's not as if this was some early time when people didn't expect anything of dynamic clothes.

My point was never that they were flawed. My point was (and is) that everything people say they want in dynamic clothes, all the reasons they give for not buying them, were proven largely irrelevant by that product. corvas showed how they could make characters look glamorous and sexy in the types of scenes and poses that were common in the galleries, how they could take pretty much any color and fit a variety of scenes. And that was that. I never even saw a complaint that he thickened the meshes in Max post sim (probably because he openly stated this in his promos). They had a very simple but flexible appeal, and it served them very well.

My only major request for 2.0 is to put Dawn's official morphs _outside of the library_ in Poser. When you put her morphs inside the library, the absolute links to the PMD files in break as soon as anyone, myself included, decides to customize their library. Which so many people do, it's in how people say to install (Unzip to an empty runtime, move files to exactly where you want them, etc.). One _huge_ drawback to Dawn 1.0 as a vendor is that you pretty much can't use any official morphs (or pretty much anyone else's morphs) in your character, unless you want to risk your character not working because the morphs aren't where you expected them to be. Morphs are external resources just like textures and meshes, and should be kept at the same directory level for the same reason. Libraries should be customizable, and links should be absolute from Runtime down. Putting linked content inside the library makes uninstallation, a _very_ rare occurance easier, but it makes actually using the content harder.

And just to say, worst of all, if you don't know this is the reason, it can look like Dawn just doesn't work. When I did my usual and set up my HiveWire runtime the way I wanted, then loaded morphs, and saw nothing happen, I knew why. I then went into PFE and fixed all the references by hand. But most people wouldn't even know what was wrong, let alone how to fix it. They'd just do what they normally do on installation (customize their folders) and have Dawn's morphs not work. And frankly, with a 2.0, that's even more important. I'm betting that some people will want a unique runtime for her, some people will want a unique folder for 2.0 in every level, etc. And some will probably go back and rename their Dawn 1.0 folders, or wrap stuff in a 1.0 folder. I'd bet that many, if not most, people are all going to handle this uniquely, and in a way that makes the most sense to them.

I think my only minor (as in unimportant) request after that is to include photos of dancers and gymnasts for rigging and muscle morph references. I don't think others will care if she can't point her toes like a ballerina or show off lean muscle like a gymnast or runner, but it would make me incredibly happy.:)
 

Chris

HW3D President
Staff member
Co-Founder
One pose on face I can NOT get is the bite/nibble lower lip. Is that possible?

Yes, it's possible. These are available on Dawn SE now. Shown here on Dawn 2.0 shape.

Dawn2Work24.JPG


Dawn2Work25.JPG
 

Chris

HW3D President
Staff member
Co-Founder
Asian faces a quite varied depending on what Asian country they come from. One of the problems I have had trying to get a realistic Asian face say Japanese is of course credible eyes. Here is an image of the kind I just cannot get right. I loved the options n V2 with eyes and/or ethnic faces and would love to see that come back into Poser figures for both males and females. The ony I refer to is the top one.
Also eye size and for those unique elven or alien looks eyes rotate in or out. THis is an image manip I did of my Neice some years ago posted on my Deviant Art page which won an award. I had eye rotate morphs someone made for me when he saw this image and when i asked for someone to offer it for V2. I loved it and use it a lot.

Got some more eye shape options coming on our Faces of the World for Dawn SE.

WorldFaces11.JPG
WorldFaces17.JPG
 

Chris

HW3D President
Staff member
Co-Founder
Asian faces a quite varied depending on what Asian country they come from. One of the problems I have had trying to get a realistic Asian face say Japanese is of course credible eyes. Here is an image of the kind I just cannot get right. I loved the options n V2 with eyes and/or ethnic faces and would love to see that come back into Poser figures for both males and females. The ony I refer to is the top one.
Also eye size and for those unique elven or alien looks eyes rotate in or out. THis is an image manip I did of my Neice some years ago posted on my Deviant Art page which won an award. I had eye rotate morphs someone made for me when he saw this image and when i asked for someone to offer it for V2. I loved it and use it a lot.

A couple of different morphs in combination. Eye Size and Eye Rotate Up Extreme. These are on Dawn 2.o, but are not cleaned up.

Dawn2Work26.JPG
 
Top