Nataani for Dusk

[Pendraia]

Agree wholeheartedly on needing two settings for different distances.

Watching other people work and their process has always been a fascinating thing for me. I picked up a lot of knowledge over the years just doing that. Chris' process when he's modeling is another example. It fascinates me like crazy! What he does is so WAY over my head, but I love watching the development as it progresses.

And also this...I don't think he realises how good he is though.

 

[Miss B]

Well, I'm not sure he doesn't realize how good he is, he just doesn't let it go to his head. He's very down to earth in his attitude, which is hard to find in most forums. Most of the larger forums don't have the site owners regularly posting on them (save for Syyd at RDNA), and he's so encouraging to folks who are showing WIPs of their projects. How often do you see that?

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

So I've been getting thumbnails made... some of them, anyway. Still saving out the MATs for the dirty skin options and such, but the eyes are finalized, so I wanted to get those thumbnails done before I forgot.

All 20 eye colors seen here.

@Miss B That is one of the many things that I love and appreciate about this place.

 

[Pendraia]

Well, I'm not sure he doesn't realize how good he is, he just doesn't let it go to his head. He's very down to earth in his attitude, which is hard to find in most forums. Most of the larger forums don't have the site owners regularly posting on them (save for Syyd at RDNA), and he's so encouraging to folks who are showing WIPs of their projects. How often do you see that?

Very true...

 

[Lorraine]

@Miss B That is one of the many things that I love and appreciate about this place.

me too, Seliah, me too

Very nice eye colours too.

 

[Alisa]

Me three...one of the things that got me hooked from the start of HW was how involved Chris & Lisa were in things-that's important to them.

I've gotten to know them since then - they are both wonderful, down to earth people, and really believe in the "5 Cs"- Create-Collaborate-Communicate-Commit-Care".
About Us

They (and Paul, of course) are awesome as artists and people in general !

Seliah, this is looking great!

 

[Miss B]

They (and Paul, of course) are awesome as artists and people in general!

Yes, what would we do without Paul's wonderful talent.

 

[Miss B]

@Seliah I'm really liking those eye colors.

 

[Pendraia]

Yes, what would we do without Paul's wonderful talent.

All very true...especially this.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

Yesterday was kind of a hectic day for us. My husband managed to hurt himself at work through a freak accident and needed some stitches and a small splint/air cast around his one hand/wrist. He's okay now, but he has no clue about medical stuff and called me asking if he could drive home after they gave him a dose of morphine. Uhm... NO! LOL

My heart-sister has also been dealing with a lot of illegal and downright bully tactics coming from her housing administration, to the point where she has secured herself a lawyer to deal with these people, and I was needed to be present as a non-resident witness in case they actually showed up to do their weekly inspection; so I was back at her house again once we had my husband home from the E.R. She does not have a computer, and although I had my laptop with me, she certainly does not have any kind of internet or cable service, so I was offline until very late at night.

I took the time to re-address the bump and normal maps. She finds the process interesting, although she doesn't understand how I can know what to do with "dial Hell" as she calls Studio's parameter dials.

Anyway - I just really still wasn't very happy with how Nataani's skin was looking, either in closeup or distance shots. So I re-made his bump maps, and then re-made his normal maps. I think this is getting closer to what I wanted out of his skin now. I am liking this much better so far; enough that I have saved his base MAT, and begun saving his base material options as well. I will work on the high-res/Lo Bump materials later this afternoon when we get back from our errands.

Here is what I have at the moment for the base materials. These are rendered closer to the camera than one would render them for most scenes. I notice that there is some texture stretching around his shoulders/collars area - particularaly the neck muscles - and this seems to happen no matter what I do with the scale etc of his skin maps. This effect can be reduced with the "Lo" bump settings for close-up renders/portrait shots, which I will work on later today.

Torso and limbs first...

And the head/neck/shoulders area...

And this is what the base MATs look like at a more commonly used camera distance :

All three renders have texture, bump, normal, and specular maps applied. Mostly for the closeup portrait/Lo-Bump settings I might need to remove the normal maps due to over-deep crevassing of the skin at those distances/resolutions, but I'll see for sure later this afternoon once we are back from running our errands.

I think this is looking a bit better, and a bit closer to what I wanted out of his skin in the first place. It's adult skin; it's not baby-smooth, but I think the re-done bumps and normals have toned down some of the sandpaper/sun-dried effect in places as well.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

Looking great Seliah! You are soo much better than me at talking through the WIP process. If I'm not careful (and apparently, I rarely am), I find hours have passed while I'm typing up one short little post!

Poser Lighting:

I could never figure out the lighting in DS, but with Poser it finally clicked. Would have helped if I'd ever been interested in photography. But my ex had one of those complicated cameras and he wasn't very good at either being patient or teaching someone how to do something. So ... I have taken very few pictures in my life.

Yes, there is a way in Poser to look through your lights. Each light has a Light Camera associated with it. It can be complicated figuring out which cameras go with which lights though ... unless you note the name of the camera when you add the light. I'm sure there is a very good reason for how the light cameras are named, but I haven't figured why some are Shadow Cam Lite and others are Shadow Lite Cam. If you use the Hierarchy Editor window and check Show cameras and Show lights, the cameras are shown parented to their light. Sometimes I can figure out what I'm doing by looking through the light camera, but other times, I don't find it helpful at all.

It is easier to see the point and spot lights in the scene, but you can also see the Infinite and Diffuse IBL lights. By default, the Infinite and Diffuse IBL lights visibility seems to be off (the eye in the Hierarchy Editor is unchecked). If you select the light using either the Parameter Dials window or the Document window, you should be able to see their outline. But, it's more effective to check the light eye in the Hierarchy Editor.

Document Window

Parameter Dials Window

The Infinite and Diffuse IBLs are "sun" lights, so you don't move them in the sense that you can move a Spotlight or Point light. xTran, yTran, and zTran does affect their positioning, but it's more like the light is scaled. I never have much success trying to position anything by grabbing it and dragging. So, needless to say, I don't find grabbing an Infinite or Diffuse IBL to be an effective way to position those lights. Spotlight and Point lights are much easier for me to grab and move., But, I find it more effective to use the Light Controls to manipulate lights. Click the little pin that's stuck into the center ball to select the light. Wait for it to be identified in the properties window (so you don't accidentally move the wrong light), then you can drag it all around the center ball.

I use both the Light Controls and the Parameter Dials to position lights.

Absolutely, it's far easier to position the lights if you zero them first! Lights are positioned randomly when you add them.

Parenting a light to a ball definitely can be helpful. If you uncheck Visible in Camera when you add it, it will render invisible while remaining visible in the preview. Visible affects the visibility of an object in both preview and render, but Visible in Camera only affects the visibility in the render. When using an object as an IDL light, you always only uncheck Visible in Camera to hide it in the render. Unchecking Visible on an IDL light source "turns off" that light source.

Oh I know what you mean. In DS I was pretty good at setting up my own lights, but in Poser I never learned how. I did get a Master Class tutorial at RDNA about lighting, so maybe I'll learn how to create lights in Poser as well.

The one thing I liked about it in DS was being able to select everything and then move the Prespective view far away so that you could grab each of the lights and move them. I have no idea how to do that in Poser. Occasionally I'll see a spotlight show up in the workspace, but most of the other lights like IDL, and Infinite are no where to be found. I can't grab them and move them to where I want them. Oh well, I'll learn some day I guess.

Yes, that's one of the things that irritated me with Poser, even as far back as Poser 4. (yeah, I'm showing my 3D age... and I don't care. hah!)

Poser has never had a common sense way of handling light rigging. In DS, you can look through the lights as you're positioning them, and that helps immensely. In Poser, there is no such animal (to my knowledge... I could be wrong!).

What I have always found helpful with Poser lights if I'm trying to move them around the scene, is to zero them first. Select the item in the Parameters, and then set all of the x, y, z trans and rotates to zero. That usually does the trick to bring the light into view in the preview/scene window for me. I haven't tried that with the newer light types, mind you, but it always did seem to work for me even with infinite lights.

Another way to control light positions is to load in a primitive - such as a sphere - and then parent the problem light to that. You can SEE the sphere... once the light is parented, just move the sphere, and the light will move with it. When you're ready to render, set the sphere invisible.

 

[Pendraia]

Looks great Seliah...I agree with what you're saying about close-ups.

Thanks Satira, that just got copied and pasted into OneNote.

 

[Miss B]

Absolutely, it's far easier to position the lights if you zero them first! Lights are positioned randomly when you add them.

That's a good point. I'll have to remember that when I really start playing with lighting in Poser.

 

[Pendraia]

Satira, is it possible when you load lights to apply them to that viewpoint? In DS they can apply in the default position or you can choose to apply the current viewpoint. Does Poser have a way to do this?

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

Thanks Satira, that just got copied and pasted into OneNote.

That's a good point. I'll have to remember that when I really start playing with lighting in Poser.

Thanks, Satira. That post had a lot of very useful information in it!

The Infinite and Diffuse IBLs are "sun" lights, so you don't move them in the sense that you can move a Spotlight or Point light. xTran, yTran, and zTran does affect their positioning, but it's more like the light is scaled.

Yes, I use infinite (and I had assumed IBL would be the same) more like the sunlight source. When I'm moving this one, it's mainly the rotate dials that I play with, to simulate what direction I want the "sunlight/moonlight" to be coming from.

Click the little pin that's stuck into the center ball to select the light. Wait for it to be identified in the properties window (so you don't accidentally move the wrong light), then you can drag it all around the center ball.

This is precisely what drives me bonkers with Poser lighting. I've used those light controls (and the parameter dials) since Poser 4, and to this day, they just don't help me. It's guesswork. Move the pin, do a render... move the pins, do a render, move the pins, do a render..... I spend more time fighting with the lights in Poser than I do anything else with a scene, and eventually it was enough that I got fed up with it and just stayed inside of Studio for my artwork.

Each light has a Light Camera associated with it. It can be complicated figuring out which cameras go with which lights though ... unless you note the name of the camera when you add the light. I'm sure there is a very good reason for how the light cameras are named, but I haven't figured why some are Shadow Cam Lite and others are Shadow Lite Cam. If you use the Hierarchy Editor window and check Show cameras and Show lights, the cameras are shown parented to their light.

Question : Can the cameras be un-parented from their lights, and then have the lights parented TO the CAMERA, instead of the cameras being parented to the lights? I will have to try that the next time I'm inside Poser. If the lights are parented to the camera instead, then moving the camera ought to make the lights follow, so you could then "point" your light in the direction you want by moving the camera...

It's just a random thought. But I personally find that looking through the lights is what helps me the most when setting up a light rig. If I aim the lights in DS while looking through that light, then I have a pretty good idea of how the lighting will come out when I do my test render. With Poser, up to this point, every single time I light a scene, it's just a lot of poke and prod and hope like crazy that the lighting actually works... and that just got old for me after a while. LOL

You are soo much better than me at talking through the WIP process. If I'm not careful (and apparently, I rarely am),

I think this comes from having an Autistic husband and daughter (they both have Asperger's Syndrome). Especially with my daughter, I have found myself over the years in a position of having to explain literally everything one piece at a time for her. Most Autistic individuals are extremely literal-minded, so if I miss even one small detail while I'm explaining, you can bet my daughter will ask me "What about this?"

It's just sort of translated into my WIP threads. After a while, it becomes automatic and you don't even realize you're doing it, until you're talking to non-ASD folks who then give you weird looks for going over minute little details that they, inherently, understand from context. The other reason I do so much of this in my WIP threads, is, like Lorraine mentioned earlier, sometimes the folks reading them are able to learn from someone else's process, and I have an innate tendency to always want to help people learn where possible.

So, I've never expended much effort in trying to squash the habit of going over every step when I am writing my updates for the WIP threads on things. Back when I made Tlaloc for M4, the WIP thread on the Daz Freepozitory was much the same as Nataani's here... it's just habit at this point for me. My girl is 17 years old now, and I've been married for 18 years to her Autistic father, and this sort of step-by-step communication has been an integral, necessary part of my conversation for as long as I've known my husband... and it became even more necessary for our daughter as well. At this point, it's just second nature for me.

 

[Pendraia]

I think this comes from having an Autistic husband and daughter (they both have Asperger's Syndrome). Especially with my daughter, I have found myself over the years in a position of having to explain literally everything one piece at a time for her. Most Autistic individuals are extremely literal-minded, so if I miss even one small detail while I'm explaining, you can bet my daughter will ask me "What about this?"

It's just sort of translated into my WIP threads. After a while, it becomes automatic and you don't even realize you're doing it, until you're talking to non-ASD folks who then give you weird looks for going over minute little details that they, inherently, understand from context. The other reason I do so much of this in my WIP threads, is, like Lorraine mentioned earlier, sometimes the folks reading them are able to learn from someone else's process, and I have an innate tendency to always want to help people learn where possible.

I can so relate to this Seliah...my middle child has Asperger's also. If you don't explain step by step they don't understand fully. I also used to work in a school for kids who were on the spectrum for 3 years.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

I can so relate to this Seliah...my middle child has Asperger's also. If you don't explain step by step they don't understand fully. I also used to work in a school for kids who were on the spectrum for 3 years.

No kidding! Never, ever just say "Set the table." Not unless you want the dinnerware placed on top of the papers and books that were already on the table....LOL! And don't just say "Mop the floor" unless you want the mop water slathered over bits and bobs that need to be swept up first...

My daughter is a very smart girl. And my husband's level intelligence blows my mind at times. But don't try to talk to them about something unless you're ready to go into every detail! And they do not draw from context very well. I'm so used to how I have to talk with them, that when I am talking to non-ASD folks, I forget that they pick up facial cues and inferences from context, and I get odd looks or get told that "Duh, we know this!"

 

[Pendraia]

When I first started working at the school with kids on the spectrum I said to one boy who was drawing a face. Now draw a nose on the face and he drew it on his face. Even the really simple things that you wouldn't expect can cause issues for some. You have to be really precise when talking to them. I have a little boy who is on the spectrum in my grade again this year. He's a lovely little boy but has a lot of problems with other students due to miscommunication. The other kids aren't precise enough when talking to him and he gets the wrong end of the stick. At the end of recess I have to sit them down, talk them through it and sort it out! Most times it due to misunderstandings. This little boy is so bright but he has some sensory issues thrown in that make it difficult at times to learn. Luckily we have someone helping for the first session every day this year.

I have the same issue at times...particularly when at work and I'm in the mode so to speak!

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

Yes, sensory issues abound with kids on the spectrum, I think. My girl will not wear long sleeve shirts, she will not wear anything with elastic bands, lace, or anything frilly or "bumpy" because it drives her skin bonkers.

Do you have any chewers? I started buying chewies for my daughter about a year ago. She's a heavy chewer, so she goes through them a lot, and quickly, but she was chewing holes in her shirt collars, the ends off pencils, the ears of her glasses are riddled with teeth marks, pillows, blankets, notebook corners, pretty much anything she gets near her mouth. She's 17, so when it's time for a new one, I just bring the site up that I order from and let her pick which one she wants. This site has some nice ones that are tasteful, so it doesn't look like she's walking around with a toddler's necklace on.

I was told by her ABR and OT both that chewing/gnawing is a common sensory for most ASD kids, and it does not always go away just because they get older.

She's also extremely sensitive to things like lights and noise... and OMG the fits she had as a toddler if there was too much of either, or sometimes just multiple different light colors or different noises at the same time in an area. I learned later on when she was identified (around age 15.. yeah it took them that long to figure it out because she's a girl, and when she was little they treated ASD as being a boy-only thing; even moreso with Asperger's girls, because there is no speech delay) that the fits we dealt with when she was little were actually meltdowns. I just learned quickly with her to sit on the floor and sort of "pin" her. Wrap my arms and legs around hers. If I did that, she would still bash her head into my chest for a good 45 minutes or so, but I much preferred her hitting her head against my chest than a concrete or wooden floor - or a brick wall! If I did not sit down with her like that, the fit would last a good 4 to 5 hours, and she would throw her body, but especially her head, as hard as she could into the nearest hard surface she could find. That was back as a toddler/infant, and she thankfully no longer tries to slam her head into things, but she was like that through most of her early and middle childhood.

Nowadays, when she's melting down it's tears and usually silence; if it's a particularly bad meltdown, she'll start rocking and punching her fist into her leg. She goes through non-verbal periods (always has) when she's overstimulated and/or melting down, and we have a sort of sign language that I took to using with her when she was about five or six and would go non-verbal. OT, when they first learned of what I did with her toddler/younger age fits, informed me that I was basically using my body like a weighted vest or weighted blanket and that it was a sensory thing for her.

The sensory issues seem to affect multiple parts of life for them. Intensely strong dislikes/hatreds of certain fabrics, foods, smells, etc. My husband has quite a few of these also. I've grown used to it, and I can generally make a good guess at what they will not like or will hate by now. But it took a few years before I had figured out what they all were.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

Whoops. I did not mean to completely derail the thread here! Sorry! LOL Getting back on track...

This is the updated base MATs for a couple of the face hair options. These settings seem to be working pretty well for all of the face hair maps.

First one is the full beard face option...

And the updated goatee face option...

Again, these are rendered a bit closer to the camera than would normally be done with this base MAT. Also, the eyes are the "light grey" that I set the diffuse color to more of a pale mossy green to get that specific color.

I notice with the specular map, particularly on the full beard option, it does have a tendency to make the light really pick up the fainter, lighter hairs in the facial hair area. It's not exactly a bad thing; just an interesting side effect of the specular map, I think. If this bothers someone in a scene, they can always disable the specular map in the Surfaces tab. I kind of like the effect, though I can see situations where someone might not want that to happen in a render, also.

I think these settings are good to go for the base MATs and base skin options. I'll hopefully have the dirty skin MATs completed tonight, and then tomorrow I can fiddle with the settings for the Lo Bump or portrait/close-up render uses.