Exporting figure from Poser for full body morphing

[Darryl]

I've been told that it's not possible to export an obj of a figure from Poser to Blender (or any external modeler) for creating full body morphs. The preferred method is to import the original obj directly into the modeler. I'm curious though, because some characters I've seen have both official morphs and custom sculpting on a head, for instance. Is it really impossible to morph a figure, export it, then finish it off externally for use as a morph target?

 

[Pendraia]

You can morph a figure and then send it to a modeller in DS. It has an option to use reverse source deformation. I don't know enough about Poser to comment though...

 

[Darryl]

That might be an option since I tend to use older characters that work in both programs.

 

[Glitterati3D]

No, this is mistaken.

You SHOULD use a copy of the original geometry, not an exported copy from Poser. This has to do with some technical mumbo jumbo about Poser's export (not necessary to understand) but if you just open the original BASE object in Blender or other modeler, you won't encounter any problems with morphing and then importing those morphs to Poser.

Just work from the original object and not an exported one.

 

[Dragonsegg]

If you import the object is there a way to get it come in "whole"? I just imported a Hivewire product and it did come into Blender fine but it came in as 50 different objects instead of a single object as I was hoping. I am pretty much a Blender noob so I may be missing something obvious.

 

[Glitterati3D]

If you import the object is there a way to get it come in "whole"? I just imported a Hivewire product and it did come into Blender fine but it came in as 50 different objects instead of a single object as I was hoping. I am pretty much a Blender noob so I may be missing something obvious.

Sorry, I know nothing about Blender so I can't answer this question.

Maybe this video will help?

 

[Dragonsegg]

Thanks! That worked it was in the import settings. Pretty easy sequence it seems. But of course I haven't played with it yet

 

[Miss B]

I used to have the same problem when trying to import V4 into Blender years ago, until I finally checked the import settings and started playing with them.

Sometimes I wondered why Blender would do that by default, but then I'm sure there are enough times when you want to import something (not necessarily a human character), and you want all the separate parts, so I guess they felt that was the best way to do it, and then make the other options available, if necessary.

 

[Pendraia]

That doesn't happen with GoZ from DS they come in to the program in one piece. Not sure why Blender would do that...

No, this is mistaken.

You SHOULD use a copy of the original geometry, not an exported copy from Poser. This has to do with some technical mumbo jumbo about Poser's export (not necessary to understand) but if you just open the original BASE object in Blender or other modeler, you won't encounter any problems with morphing and then importing those morphs to Poser.

Just work from the original object and not an exported one.

I'm curious Traci as to why this is? Do you know? In DS most things only have duf files these days so it isn't a issue when I'm using DS and make most of my morphs for DS first and convert them to Poser but one day I may need to reverse the process. Which is why I want to know...Thanks.

 

[Glitterati3D]

That doesn't happen with GoZ from DS they come in to the program in one piece. Not sure why Blender would do that...

I'm curious Traci as to why this is? Do you know? In DS most things only have duf files these days so it isn't a issue when I'm using DS and make most of my morphs for DS first and convert them to Poser but one day I may need to reverse the process. Which is why I want to know...Thanks.

As I said, it's a lot of techno mumbo jumbo involved, but, look for any post by Vilters on the official Poser forum discussing it.

 

[Gadget Girl]

My understanding is it's not a Blender thing, but rather a Poser thing. Poser deals with groups differently than just about any other 3d program (although I think DS may do some similar things) and so it considers each material and bone grouping an individual object with the .obj file.

 

[Glitterati3D]

My understanding is it's not a Blender thing, but rather a Poser thing. Poser deals with groups differently than just about any other 3d program (although I think DS may do some similar things) and so it considers each material and bone grouping an individual object with the .obj file.

Grouping is a separate issue entirely.

OK, let me see if I can explain.

Your modeling program puts the vertex in a specific order.

That vertex order is imported into Poser when you bring in your model and rig it.

IF you export that model out of Poser, Poser exports a vertex order IT uses in that object, internally.

The modeler and Poser may have differing vertex orders, and Poser may change it.

Once the vertex order is changed, Poser cannot use the model again without exploding.

Like I said.........techno mumbo jumbo.

You can avoid all this by using the original model stored in Poser as an object.

 

[Darryl]

It least you can export a morphed head apparently. Which is mostly what I'm interested in.

 

[Pendraia]

As I said, it's a lot of techno mumbo jumbo involved, but, look for any post by Vilters on the official Poser forum discussing it.

Thanks Traci I will check this out when I get chance.

 

[Bejaymac]

It's a mesh group issue, Zygote, DAZ and P7+ figures and conformers use a welded mesh (or are meant to, but not all 3rd party creators know this}, in some circles this mesh grouping is referred to as "soft split grouping", the problem is that most modeling programs haven't use a system like that in roughly 15 years.

Instead they now work on a scene and anything loaded into that scene is seen as a separate item, which is what they do with groups from an OBJ. Exporting a mesh after it's been split into separate items, leaves you with duplicate vertex and a different winding order, which is why the morphs explode when the dial is spun.

You need to know if the original mesh was welded or unwelded before you import it into a modeling program, welded you don't want to import the mesh groups otherwise your morph is FUBAR, unwelded you should be alright just as long as the program doesn't change the winding order on export.

 

[Pendraia]

Thanks for the info Bejaymac...

 

[Ken1171]

This subject was one of the very first things I have discussed here when creating contents for HW figures. I use 3DSMAX, and all Autodesk programs can only see Poser/DS body groups as split geometries, which is a very BAD thing. There is no option to make MAX understand how this grouping method works. There is an option to weld to a single mesh, but that will change the OBJ vertex order, which invalidates all morphs and also deletes all grouping information from the model.

Nearly all modeling applications work this way, and there are only a couple that can understand Poser/DS body groups properly. This means I can model with MAX, but I can no longer edit anything once it has been grouped in Poser, and neither I can attempt to group it in MAX because it will split it into several split geometries. That is no fixing to that, and the only way is to use another program.

All this because Poser/DS use groups in a different way than most 3D modeling applications. HW has recommended using Modo because it's one of the few programs that can understand Poser/DS grouping, and they claim it to be the best program to create figure morphs with. For the record, all HW figures were created with Modo. I have started to play with it and it was the first time I have ever imported a Poser mesh into a 3D modeling application without collapsing all groups, or splitting the figure into multiple parts. It was one of those "ah-ha" moments. This is major, because I could never edit contents once they were grouped in Poser or DS, because I couldn't put them back into a single mesh.

All DAZ and HW figures are SINGLE mesh in the original OBJ, but it may be split into multiple parts when exported, or when edited in most programs. I don't know if Blender can understand this kind of grouping, but if it does, you are a very lucky person, because most other programs don't.

 

[tonyvilters]

Hi Ken, I am making a video series for Poser, and the first 2 video's are on YouTube.
Search YouTube for : Poser2Blender2Poser, and you will get them.

Video1 => are the export - import settings between both apps. (Correct : It is IMPOSSIBLE to export a grouped figure from Poser because vertex order is lost, but there are always workflows to get around that.)

Video2 => is how to improve the Poser meshes with a Full Body Morph, and a HD Morph projection into a SubD mesh.

Best regards, Tony

 

[Glitterati3D]

This subject was one of the very first things I have discussed here when creating contents for HW figures. I use 3DSMAX, and all Autodesk programs can only see Poser/DS body groups as split geometries, which is a very BAD thing. There is no option to make MAX understand how this grouping method works. There is an option to weld to a single mesh, but that will change the OBJ vertex order, which invalidates all morphs and also deletes all grouping information from the model.

Nearly all modeling applications work this way, and there are only a couple that can understand Poser/DS body groups properly. This means I can model with MAX, but I can no longer edit anything once it has been grouped in Poser, and neither I can attempt to group it in MAX because it will split it into several split geometries. That is no fixing to that, and the only way is to use another program.

All this because Poser/DS use groups in a different way than most 3D modeling applications. HW has recommended using Modo because it's one of the few programs that can understand Poser/DS grouping, and they claim it to be the best program to create figure morphs with. For the record, all HW figures were created with Modo. I have started to play with it and it was the first time I have ever imported a Poser mesh into a 3D modeling application without collapsing all groups, or splitting the figure into multiple parts. It was one of those "ah-ha" moments. This is major, because I could never edit contents once they were grouped in Poser or DS, because I couldn't put them back into a single mesh.

All DAZ and HW figures are SINGLE mesh in the original OBJ, but it may be split into multiple parts when exported, or when edited in most programs. I don't know if Blender can understand this kind of grouping, but if it does, you are a very lucky person, because most other programs don't.

Hi Ken,

This is why I use PoseMorphLoader by colorcurvature to do all my morphing work. When you use PML to export the mesh, it comes into the modelers as a single mesh, not broken apart into groups, but retains the grouping information for re-importation into Poser.

I understand that 3DCoat does the same, though I recently purchased it, I haven't tried it for it's morphing capability yet.

 

[Ken1171]

Wow that sounds like something I should have known YEARS ago! How does it make programs like 3DSMAX understand Poser/DS groups? Or does it remove all groups, and then adds them back after editing? MAX only understands this kind of group as a split geometry, so if it finds it, it WILL split the mesh. So how does PML handle that? Sounds promising!