What needs to be in a figure's clothing Wardrobe?

[eclark1894]

I can't bring myself to do that, either, except on rare occassions when I have to wash something out of my eye. But it's really difficult. My eye will blink just as an eye drop is about to hit. That can be costly.

Dana

I can open my eyes underwater with no problem, except in the ocean... problem. All that salt.

 

[DanaTA]

My dad threw me in the pool when I was 6, and boom, I was swimming out of instinct. Of course, it was a shallow pool for children, but I was doggy swimming nonetheless. Looks like all mammals instinctively know how to swim from birth, but the issue with humans is to tame the fear of water. There is a possibility that people drown not because they don't know how to swim, but instead because they panic. In a similar way, people can die on dry land by being stomped over in a crowd panic - not because they don't know how to run, but because they panic. So it could be that people who have trouble learning how to swim could actually be just afraid of water. Food for thought?

I don't float. I know, it's not logical, nor scientific, but I don't float.

Dana

 

[KageRyu]

Meant to post this the other day, but I have been pressed for time. Regarding button down shirts and buttons - wouldn't making the buttons each a separate group without bending as a child of the shirt work for having them follow the pose but not deform? I know it means a bit of extra rigging - but it seems to me this would address concerns.

 

[DanaTA]

Meant to post this the other day, but I have been pressed for time. Regarding button down shirts and buttons - wouldn't making the buttons each a separate group without bending as a child of the shirt work for having them follow the pose but not deform? I know it means a bit of extra rigging - but it seems to me this would address concerns.

I've never done rigging...yet...but I seem to remember having read that info somewhere. I think the concept is workable in both DS and Poser.

Dana

 

[Ken1171]

Meant to post this the other day, but I have been pressed for time. Regarding button down shirts and buttons - wouldn't making the buttons each a separate group without bending as a child of the shirt work for having them follow the pose but not deform? I know it means a bit of extra rigging - but it seems to me this would address concerns.

I would love to have this solved, but how would this work? What bone drives these buttons? We can have bones not assigned to any groups, but all groups must be assigned to a bone. And if the buttons are assigned to the shirt's poly groups, how would we parent them to itself?

 

[Rowan54]

I would love to have this solved, but how would this work? What bone drives these buttons? We can have bones not assigned to any groups, but all groups must be assigned to a bone. And if the buttons are assigned to the shirt's poly groups, how would we parent them to itself?

It's because of complicated stuff like this in order to create what most of us consider ordinary every day clothing is why most models end up with a much easier to make swimming suit...even, apparently, when many artists sink like rocks in water.

 

[Ken1171]

"Rigidity groups" are the way to resolve this, and it is supported in DS, but not in Poser. It's a special kind of group we assign geometry we don't want to be distorted by posing, morphs or body scaling. I have discussed this with SMS, where they replied this would only please a few people using the "Pro" version, so it had very low priority in their queue. In other words, that would only please content creators, which were few comparing to the regular users, so their needs are less important.

I kind of understand that it would make sense they would concentrate on features that would please the majority of the Poser community, but it was that kind of attitude that contributed to content creator's frustration with Poser. It's pretty simple to put buttons on a shirt, but it's a lot of extra work to keep them from exploding when posing and morphs are applied. SMS never understood why content was important to Poser, but I have hopes that things will be different with Rosity. Of all people, they understand the importance of content - and hence, of content creators.

 

[KageRyu]

I would love to have this solved, but how would this work? What bone drives these buttons? We can have bones not assigned to any groups, but all groups must be assigned to a bone. And if the buttons are assigned to the shirt's poly groups, how would we parent them to itself?

In the suggestion I was making The buttons are their own groups. Using the Dusk rigging as example, those button in the Chest 2 area would be child bones of Chest 2, those in Chest 1 would be child bones of Chest one, and so forth for Abdomen 2, Abdomen 1... with each button having it's own bone set to non-bending so they do not distort or bend, but would still follow the root poly there bone joint center is set up with. As I said, extra rigging, but should be a viable way to address the issue. Alternatively, make the buttons embedded Smartprops - those will follow poses.

 

[Ken1171]

@KageRyu Ohh, I see what you mean - make each button controlled by a ghost bone. Have you tried that yourself? I have the impression the buttons wouldn't follow posing very well this way. They wouldn't stay in place during posing - there would be some drifting due to differences between the 2 different sets of weight maps. If we make the buttons smart props, a similar thing would happen, because they won't follow morphs. In my experience, they only way to keep the buttons together would be if they were driven by the same bone and weight maps - which is exactly what causes the distortions we want to avoid.

 

[KageRyu]

I've sort of tried something similar, a long time ago, in Lightwave. Lightwave isn't Poser though, but the version of Lightwave I did this in did not have many of the advancements Poser has now that are almost taken for granted in Poser (it was V5.6 of Lightwave, where despite group names, bones could affect nearby meshes). It worked well enough for what I needed at the time.

I believe, though I am not certain, that I have a few legacy items for the Generation 3 figures that did something just like this. I need to double check, but I am going to say it was either something from Uzilite or Aery Soul (or what name he was using then).

Morphs could be built in to smart propped buttons, but that is a lot of extra work - and then limits them to the morphs baked in. I do have some experience turning props into morphing smartprops using morphs and geo-switching. It's been a minute since I did any of that (before RDNA closed)...but at the time I was working with several independent vendors on morphing props, geometry switching props and figures, and ERC...lots of ERC.

Edit Oh, yeah, Uzilite's MOS line uses a lot of child groups and embedded Smartprops which has caused me no end of trouble trying to convert them from V3/M3 to other figures. The Shoulders on the MOS MArine have fold out tools that break using both Crossdresser and Wardrobe Wizard, The helmet from Liquid Knight has many children that break on conversion. The belt items on either of these sets use embedded props that get lost with the conversions - but on the figure they are meant for they work great with poses.

 

[Ken1171]

Sounds like either ways it's a lot of work, then.

 

[esha]

Just to clarify something: Rigidity in DS helps with keeping the buttons' shape in morphs but not for posing. To make them keep their shape when posed you need to fix the weight maps.

 

[3WC]

I have tried this with my StarStorm outfit for Dawn. The medallions need to be rigid, so made them with their own bones. It is a lot of work, yes, but helps keep them rigid when posing. Someday I might actually finish it for DS and Poser. Maybe when Dawn 2.0 comes out.

 

[Miss B]

Ohhh, something for us to look forward to.

 

[Ken1171]

Just to clarify something: Rigidity in DS helps with keeping the buttons' shape in morphs but not for posing. To make them keep their shape when posed you need to fix the weight maps.

Thanks for the extra info! The good side of this is that we only have 1 set of weight maps, but a large amount of morphs, so it seems to be a good trade off. In Poser we have to compensate for both. More recently I have seen this in iClone 7, where they call it something else, but it works like rigidity groups.

I have tried this with my StarStorm outfit for Dawn. The medallions need to be rigid, so made them with their own bones. It is a lot of work, yes, but helps keep them rigid when posing. Someday I might actually finish it for DS and Poser. Maybe when Dawn 2.0 comes out.

The more outfits for Dawn, the better! ^____^

 

[KageRyu]

I have tried this with my StarStorm outfit for Dawn. The medallions need to be rigid, so made them with their own bones. It is a lot of work, yes, but helps keep them rigid when posing. Someday I might actually finish it for DS and Poser. Maybe when Dawn 2.0 comes out.

I am still anxiously waiting, It looks like a great outfit.

 

[quietrob]

Blue Jeans. Sneakers and T-shirt. The basic uniform for most adults/teens at some point in their life.

 

[eclark1894]

Should shoes be sold separately, or should they be included with every outfit? I remember when I was making things for Roxie and the Poser native figures I always included at least a cheap pair of shoes or boots. Roxie didn't have that many anyway, so she needed whatever she could get. All the Poser figures came with a pair of sneakers anyway, so they always had that. I would have made more shoes, but I was just starting out with modeling so I wasn't very good, and shoes, especially heels, seem to be a special kind of modeling hell.

 

[HaiGan]

Depending on the outfit, it can be hard to avoid pokethrough using footwear not designed for use with the outfit, so shoes specific to it are good where that would be the case. Some styles of outfit are typically worn with a specific type of footwear, if that type of footwear is not available for that figure then shoes will make the clothing more useful. Also it can be handy to have shoes as part of an outfit if you want to quickly throw a complete outfit onto a figure and don't have a well organised wardrobe of footwear to pick from.

 

[eclark1894]

Maybe it's just a personal quirk of mine as I think a pair of shoes should come with almost every outfit.