Poser 11.3 now available

[Hornet3d]

Just had the email with the download links for Poser 11.3 which so i went to see how fast they were. All downloaded OK and installed, uninstalling previous Poser installation, selected to use existing preferences and all is well. Needed to do a system restart but it came up as expected and loaded my preferred scene. First tests suggest that there in no improvement with the render times using my 1080 Ti graphics card but that is what i expected from test someone had done with a beta versions.

So time to have a play and look at the changes.

 

[Miss B]

I also received the email, but haven't had a chance to download yet. I was told you do NOT have to uninstall in order to install a new version, so I never do.

As far as the render speeds go, I've only noticed a big difference from my old laptop, because I now have an Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 Ti, which is one of the newer GPUs with the, until now, unsupported Turing system, so I've only been able to use the CPU for rendering. Now I hope I'll be able to use my GPU when rendering with SuperFly. Not sure if they've done anything with Blender's Cycles render engine with respect to the new GPU system goes, but I sure hope so, though I don't usually do final renders in Blender.

This puppy also has 6Cores, 12MB Cache, and can get up to 4.5Ghz w/Turbo Boost. My old laptop was a quad core with only 8MB Cache. That makes a big difference too.

Old CPU test renders usually took about 20 minutes, and final render about an hour. Now the test renders take about 5-6 minutes and the final renders take about 13-15 minutes.

 

[LisaB]

Sweet!!

 

[Ken1171]

Today I have installed 11.3, and as usual, I didn't uninstall anything. Just installed over 11.2, and everything went well. I wrote a more extensive review of 11.3 at DeviantArt, where I discuss the installation, the changes, the bug fixing, the new features, and the potential brighter future of Poser with Rendo.

 

[Miss B]

Well, I just finished downloading . . . after 3 failures to download Poser Pro 11, and then I got strange notice(s) that the Poser Support file may not be safe.

This is the first notice I saw.

When I clicked on the "i", I got this second notice.

I'll try again later to see if I can get a better download, but I don't usually see anything like that unless it's a notice from Norton. Certainly not from a download link on the Poser Software site.

 

[Miss B]

OK, I was just at Renderosity and saw a query asking about whether 11.2 need to be uninstalled, and Chuck Taylor (a/k/a Nerd) stated the following:

"Poser 11.3 is a full install. You should but probably don't have to uninstall the old version. If you do uninstall your content is save. Nothing you've download will be removed. Install it in the same place as your current version. You can retain your existing preferences as well. This is now the default action in the windows installer. Mac users should backup their preferences first."

 

[Miss B]

I'll try again later to see if I can get a better download, but I don't usually see anything like that unless it's a notice from Norton. Certainly not from a download link on the Poser Software site.

Well, I tried several times, even after clearing the cache, deleting temp files, and the like, shutting down, rebooting, and I still had the same issue with the Poser Support file.

So, then I decided to boot up Opera, which I rarely use, and this time I successfully downloaded the Poser Support file. Still weird as I've never had that problem before on any site, and especially not the Poser Software site.

 

[Ken1171]

Well, I tried several times, even after clearing the cache, deleting temp files, and the like, shutting down, rebooting, and I still had the same issue with the Poser Support file.

The "not commonly downloaded" seems like a quite vague description. Where is that coming from? Most likely some kind of security software you have installed? There are many online services that track the most commonly downloaded files, and give them scores based on customer feedback, which is completely unreliable. This is a brand new update, so of course, it couldn't be "commonly downloaded" because it has just been released.

The message is rather vague, and I don't know from where it is coming from, but I can tell Kaspersky anti-virus and Comodo Firewall have not detected anything wrong with these files over here. I believe there is a good chance your installed security software is just flagging false positives. My bet is that this has nothing to do with the Rendo files.

 

[Miss B]

Oh it's not from Norton, because if it had been, Norton would slide out a warning window, and it didn't. I ran the original Poser Support file through Norton, and it didn't say anything was wrong. Neither did Spybot Search & Destroy.

Since I was finally able to get the full download with Opera, I'm wondering if Mozilla did something in the last Firefox update that did it, because I've never had that kind of issue with Firefox before.

Norton usually sends that type of warning, though worded a bit differently, if I've downloaded something that's really new, and Norton hasn't come across it before because not that many folks had already downloaded it. The really strange thing is, I would expect that from a file format that's unusual. For instance, when you click on the PoserSupport link on the left, it's a PoserSupport.pkg file, and that's rather unusual. It's the link on the right that's the PoserSupport.exe, which is certainly not a new file format. ~shakes head~

 

[Ken1171]

Oh it's not from Norton, because if it had been, Norton would slide out a warning window, and it didn't. I ran the original Poser Support file through Norton, and it didn't say anything was wrong. Neither did Spybot Search & Destroy.

You will have to find out what is generating that message, because it's obviously a false positive. Over here I use Google Chrome, and it won't do anything like this on its own. I have dedicated security software installed that handle that on their own. The browser should not interfere, or else it may conflict with your anti-virus.

OK, I was just at Renderosity and saw a query asking about whether 11.2 need to be uninstalled, and Chuck Taylor (a/k/a Nerd) stated the following:

"Poser 11.3 is a full install. You should but probably don't have to uninstall the old version. If you do uninstall your content is save. Nothing you've download will be removed. Install it in the same place as your current version. You can retain your existing preferences as well. This is now the default action in the windows installer. Mac users should backup their preferences first."

It is true that this may preserve your preferences, but there will be things that will be lost after the update, like your custom script panel, your custom splash screen (if you have one), and some GUI customizations that use 3rd party Python plugins. This will happen whether or not we uninstall Poser, or just install over it like I did. For people who leave everything at defaults, there is nothing to be lost.

And when it comes to custom preferences, there is one little thing nobody talks about that I consider exceptionally unusual with Poser, which is different from every other program. Poser allows the creation of a "Preferred State", but we cannot launch Poser using it. We can only launch to "Factory defaults" or to "Last state". We can create a preferred state, but can never use it when Poser is launched. Why do we have a preferred state if we can never use it? I have to save my preferences on a memory dot, since preferred state is useless. Am I the only one to find this odd?

 

[Hornet3d]

Sorry, I am being thick and I am missing the last point regarding the preferred state, I have a scene set with a figure, dome and backdrop set up and when I launch Poser that is the scene that loads. I can then work on the scene and save it setting up a title for the scene, if I then load a new scene or shut down and launch Poser I go back the the original preferred state. What is it that I cannot use.

 

[Miss B]

I'm pretty sure I saw someone post that the preferred state will be the same. I just have to remember to save FireFly and SuperFly render settings, and such. I'll also have to find out what the new URL for the external library is going to be. That usually changes with updates, so I'm going to have to fix that for sure.

 

[Miss B]

And when it comes to custom preferences, there is one little thing nobody talks about that I consider exceptionally unusual with Poser, which is different from every other program. Poser allows the creation of a "Preferred State", but we cannot launch Poser using it. We can only launch to "Factory defaults" or to "Last state". We can create a preferred state, but can never use it when Poser is launched. Why do we have a preferred state if we can never use it? I have to save my preferences on a memory dot, since preferred state is useless. Am I the only one to find this odd?

Are you referring to the new 11.3 version not being able to launch to the Preferred State, because I always get the setup I want when I boot up 11.2. I don't think I've ever used the Memory Dots, well maybe when I played with P5 for a while before switching to DS years ago. I certainly haven't used them since coming back to Poser with version 9.

 

[Ken1171]

Sorry, I am being thick and I am missing the last point regarding the preferred state, I have a scene set with a figure, dome and backdrop set up and when I launch Poser that is the scene that loads. I can then work on the scene and save it setting up a title for the scene, if I then load a new scene or shut down and launch Poser I go back the the original preferred state. What is it that I cannot use.

I think "Preferred State" only affects a few things, like what is loaded with Poser and some settings, but not all the interface customizations. This would explain why "Launch To" only has 2 options - either to the "last state", or to "factory defaults". In my experience, the window size and some settings are kept from whatever was used in the last scene, ignoring the preferred state. In other words, Poser overrides some settings whenever we close the program (last state), and will load them back next time we launch Poser. We can stop this behavior by changing settings to launch to "Factory Defaults", which will also reset some settings back to default every time we launch Poser. I don't know which is worse. Why don't we have an option to launch to "Preferred State"? I guess that was the point I was trying to make.

Are you referring to the new 11.3 version not being able to launch to the Preferred State

No, the same (listed above) also happens in 11.3. Launching Poser to the "Preferred State" is still not an option in the Poser settings.

 

[Hornet3d]

I think "Preferred State" only affects a few things, like what is loaded with Poser and some settings, but not all the interface customizations. This would explain why "Launch To" only has 2 options - either to the "last state", or to "factory defaults". In my experience, the window size and some settings are kept from whatever was used in the last scene, ignoring the preferred state. In other words, Poser overrides some settings whenever we close the program (last state), and will load them back next time we launch Poser. We can stop this behavior by changing settings to launch to "Factory Defaults", which will also reset some settings back to default every time we launch Poser. I don't know which is worse. Why don't we have an option to launch to "Preferred State"? I guess that was the point I was trying to make.



No, the same (listed above) also happens in 11.3. Launching Poser to the "Preferred State" is still not an option in the Poser settings.

Thank you, now I understand, my preferred scene loads but if for say I have Netherworks Camera Control Panel set up in the scene I have to relaunch it so that is not retained.

 

[Ken1171]

Thank you, now I understand, my preferred scene loads but if for say I have Netherworks Camera Control Panel set up in the scene I have to relaunch it so that is not retained.

That's not the only thing. Poser overrides some of your preferences every time you close it, and some settings cannot even be saved. For example, I wanted to change my memory dots to start with "Camera" instead of "UI", but that setting is not saved with "Preferred State" or anything. It always resets back to factory defaults when we launch Poser.

In your case, Netherworks has a script that auto starts whatever script you want whenever Poser launches called "Scripts Auto Launch". I use it here, and it works nicely with Poser 11. You should definitely get it! However, I think I bought it from RuntimeDNA, so it might not be for sale anymore. You will have to ask Joseph, though he doesn't seem to be working with Poser anymore.

 

[Hornet3d]

Did a little bit more playing with GPU rendering but decided it not going to work for me. I tried GPU rendering with the new rendering default which has the Branch Path Tracing switched on and hit a big problem. Not only is the render no quicker than CPU it has some issues.

As you can see it is messy as the hair seems to react with the eyebrows where they intersect. I do not usually use BPT so had not seen this before so I tried with the same render settings but using the CPU, same result which means it is not a GPU issue.

Going back to my normat settings with PBT off, 50 samples (which allows me to cancel when the render is 'cooked') and progressive refinement on gives me this result irrespective if I use GPU or CPU.

Other things to note is the progressive refinement shows far quicker than when using BPT, the render times are essentially the same with either GPU or CPU accept that the GPU locks my computer up so I cannot use it for other things when rendering. This is not the case with CPU rendering.

The problem with BPT may not be new in Poser 11.3, I just came across it as I was trying out the changes in GPU rendering. My setup uses a 11g 1080TI card and Poser 11.3 does not play ball, not only that it is not as stable as CPU rendering. This is not a compliant of 11.3 just a description of my findings as I play with 11.3 and finding out what does and does not work for me.

 

[Hornet3d]

That's not the only thing. Poser overrides some of your preferences every time you close it, and some settings cannot even be saved. For example, I wanted to change my memory dots to start with "Camera" instead of "UI", but that setting is not saved with "Preferred State" or anything. It always resets back to factory defaults when we launch Poser.

In your case, Netherworks has a script that auto starts whatever script you want whenever Poser launches called "Scripts Auto Launch". I use it here, and it works nicely with Poser 11. You should definitely get it! However, I think I bought it from RuntimeDNA, so it might not be for sale anymore. You will have to ask Joseph, though he doesn't seem to be working with Poser anymore.

Thank you for the information and the suggestion. I do have "Scripts Auto Launch" and I have used it in the past. For some reason I had an issue with it when I upgraded to Poser 11.2. That is not to say it is an issue with 11.2 as it could be my system or setup but now you have mentioned it I will try and get it working again.

 

[Ken1171]

The problem with BPT may not be new in Poser 11.3

Indeed this is an old issue, and - surprise! - it has nothing to do with Poser or Superfly. Branched Path Tracing seems to have been sabotaged by nVidia for years, apparently as means to keep Blender3D Cycles from competing with I-ray. They do this by undermining the GeForce driver. I know it sounds like I am speculating here, but the evidence is rather compromising for nVidia. In a nutshell, while using the same GeForce drivers, BPT works in I-ray, but not with competing rendering engines that rely on nVidia drivers. With nVidia I-ray it just works as it should, but with Cycles and Superfly, it just tends to crash your computer.

As a result, you will see a warning in the Poser render settings whenever you enable BPT in GPU mode. Look for the little blue "i" icon at the upper right corner when you are in GPU and enable BPT. If you hover your mouse over it, it will advise you to disable BPT in GPU mode because it can cause "instabilities". In my experience, it can go as far as to crash Windows 10 into a BSOD, where there was a case where it has even corrupted Windows and I couldn't boot up anymore.

That was years ago, and now the issue is not as severe. At best it will crash the render, but not Poser or Windows, which is good. It's funny that nVidia "could not fix" the issue with their drivers that undermine ONLY the competition, no matter how many years have passed by now. nVidia considers this as an "unresolved bug" on their own GeForce drivers, which happens to benefit them, and undermine the competition. A little too convenient if you ask me.

As for BPT, it scales up render multi-threading in the GPU, which should speed up your render considerably. As a result, you can use MUCH less pixel samples when BPT is enabled. Otherwise we have to bump up pixel samples to MUCH higher values, which increases render times exponentially. For example, I can produce a noise-free 900x1200 render with as little as 7 pixel samples with BPT enabled, and it finishes in a couple of minutes. With BPT off, the same render will now require as much as 40~50 pixel samples to produce the same result, and renders times take as along as 10~15 minutes.

The thing about pixel samples is that it is a render thread multiplier. Number of pixel samples vs number of primary rays:
1ps = 1pr
2ps= 4pr
3ps= 9pr
4ps= 16pr
...
7ps= 49pr

As you can see, increasing pixel samples by a single digit produces a quadratic exponential increase on the number of ray castings. When BPT is enabled, these rays will be computed in parallel, while otherwise they will be calculated in series, one at a time, which kills render performance when using the GPU.

Pixel samples are tied to the bucket size, so one thing affects the other - they work together. In a nutshell, if the bucket size is smaller than the largest image dimension (width or height), this will increase the number of required threads, which increases render time. However, bucket size is limited by how much VRAM you have available in your video card - you cannot just bump it at will. You have to try to make it as large as possible, before you run out of memory. This will produce the fastest possible render, but that requires using BPT in GPU mode.

Having that said, we can see how nVidia has something to gain my limiting us from using BPT In GPU mode because they make the GPU hardware, and also the driver that enables each feature. It's freely available in I-ray, but limited and even dangerous in competing rendering engines, like Cycles and Superfly. Even if nVidia is not sabotaging the competition on purpose, it's darn too convenient that they "can't fix" this "bug" after these many years. It's too convenient that this driver "bug" only affects the competition. They could fix everything else, just not this.

 

[Miss B]

Thank you, now I understand, my preferred scene loads but if for say I have Netherworks Camera Control Panel set up in the scene I have to relaunch it so that is not retained.

Ahhhhhhh, NOW I understand what you're saying. OK, I don't have that problem because I also have Joe's Script Servant, and Scripts Auto Launch goodies, which will load a number of his other goodies when I boot up Poser, so the Camera Panel, my Python Scripts window, and a couple of others will load automatically, though the Scripts window loads floating, so I grab it, and place it where I want it.