Please Jog My Brain - How Do You Combine Props/OBJs In The Setup Room?

[3dcheapskate]

The last (and also first I think?) time I created a figure in Poser was many, many years ago (ShareCG says six) - my globe

I find myself once again wanting to create a 'thing' with rotating parts, and think the figure route is the most appropriate. So I just tried to do things in the same way I did before.

My globe consisted of four separate objects (base, cradle, globe, and hoop). I thought I imported them into Poser 6 as separate objects and used the Setup Room. But I can't seem to find a way, even in PP2014, to get several imported OBJs in the setup room together!

(In fact, I'm now beginning to think that I didn't use the Setup Room at all, but manually edited a CR2 to do what I wanted?)

I've looked at the PP2014 Reference Manual, p750 "Setting Up an Original Figure -> Step 1: Importing/Arranging Geometries" and infer (it's not very helpful with details) that I should be able to import a few objects and then take them all into the Setup Room together - but whatever I do I end up with just one of the objects in the Setup Room.

Yes, I'm most likely doing something stupid / missing something obvious I know... ;o)

 

[3dcheapskate]

The relevant bits from PP2014 Reference Manual, p750 "Setting Up an Original Figure -> Step 1: Importing/Arranging Geometries" are in bold:

'Begin the figure creation process by inserting the prop(s) you wish to assemble into a figure. Do this by adding props to your scene using the Library palette and/or by importing geometry objects (static mesh objects or props). If using more than one prop, be sure to arrange your props in their final positions before beginning the figure conversion process.
Please refer to “Importing Files” on page 826 for information on importing geometries into Poser.
In order to be rigged, you need to create your geometry properly and assign each body to a unique Material Group; otherwise the geometry won’t be treated as a separate body part. Group names for the Alyson and Ryan figures are listed in “Poser Figures Hierarchy” on page 739.'

I also took a look at the "Importing Files" bit on p826 referred to from that. The "...We recommend that you create your geometries as single files with no groups, since Poser includes powerful grouping tools..." on p830 made me laugh - I find trying to group within Poser to be awful... so maybe I'm doing that wrong too? But the reference on p832 to "...the legacy text-based method (refer to “Appendix D: Creating and Converting Hierarchy Files” on page 892)..." rings a bell - maybe that's how I did the globe ? I honestly can't remember.

 

[Ken1171]

You can't bring a multi-part object into the Setup Room. What you could do is this:

1. Load all parts into your scene and position them.
2. Name each part following the Poser body group standards.
3. Export everything to OBJ (File->Export->OBJ). From the parts to export panel, select ONLY the parts that belong to your figure and deselect everything else. From the OBJ exporting options panel, keep the groups you have created.
4. Import your OBJ back into Poser. Now it should be all in a single mesh, but preserving the separate groups.
5. Select your imported OBJ, and NOW you can rig it in the Setup Room.

Hope this helps.

 

[3dcheapskate]

Thanks Ken, yes it does. Having each body part as a separate group within the OBJ file seems to do the trick (I'm creating my meshes in Blender, so I can keep each body part as a separate object in my blend file but export them all together to an OBJ file with the "Objects as groups" option).

 

[Ken1171]

Yes, that's how you should always proceed when exporting geometry meant to be rigged in Poser/DS. One issue I have with 3DSMAX is that it doesn't understand "groups" in the same sense as Poser/DS, so it ends up splitting every group as a split geometry. I suspect Blender might do the same, which will still work in Poser, but not for creating morph targets.

 

[3dcheapskate]

Not sure what you mean by 3DSMAX "splitting every group as a split geometry", but here's an extract of my Blender-exported test OBJ containing two body parts. Is that similar to what you're talking about? (Edit, after reading this again:I'm guessing not - you mean 3DS is splitting with the 'o'tag, not the 'g' tag, yes?)
I already created a test morph target for the child body part and it seemed to work fine (just duplicated the relevant object in Blender, modified that, and exported just that object as an OBJ to be loaded as a morph target).

# Blender v2.77 (sub 0) OBJ File: 'ChainLinks1.blend'
# www.blender.org
mtllib Links2Base.mtl
g Torus.007
v 0.163750 0.000707 0.000000
...etc...
vt 1.0000 0.2014
...etc...
usemtl None
s off
f 1/1 9/2 10/3 2/4
...etc...
g Torus.006
v 0.043750 0.000000 0.000707
...etc...
vt 1.0000 0.2014
...etc...
usemtl None
s off
f 81/100 89/101 90/102 82/103
...etc...

 

[Ken1171]

In your particular case, the body groups were already separate geometries, so it won't make any difference in MAX or Blender. But for instance, if you get Dawn or Dusk into MAX, it will break the single mesh into multiple parts - one for each body group. This not only changes the poly count (invalidates all morphs), but also breaks the UVs into multiple parts. Either things are self-defeating. I need to learn Modo just to handle UV Mapping and body grouping. That's the only programs that won't destroy everything on single-mesh figures.

 

[3dcheapskate]

Ah yes - splitting on import! I've imported figure OBJs into Blender in the past and run into all sorts of problems. I never got to the bottom of it, but what you've said could explain things. (It strikes me as odd that Blender has the "Objects as groups/objects" options on export, but no "Groups as groups/objects" options on import?)

P.S. For an admin - maybe this thread should be moved to the 3D Content Develoipment forum which I've just spotted ?

 

[3dcheapskate]

Just asked at Renderosity about importing an OBJ in Blender, (I'm not afraid to ask stupid questions! ) and there are separate checkboxes for "Split by object" / "Split by group" (if you select the "Split" button), or "Poly Groups" if you select the "Keep Vertex Order" button.

That last one "Keep Vertex Order" with "Poly Groups" checked seems to do what you need. Are you sure MAX doesn't have a similar import option ?

 

[3dcheapskate]

You can't bring a multi-part object into the Setup Room...

It wasn't the setup room I was thinking of after all ! I just (re?)discovered the 'legacy' method of creating a figure from separate props (and/or imported objects) on p741 of the PP2014 Reference Manual, "Using the Hierarchy Editor", so I guess that's what the bit I quoted from the manual must be referring to? Drag-and-drop the props into the required parent-child arrangements, select the parent of this rearrangement, click "Create New Figure", and give it a name. It creates the figure in a "New Figures" folder of the default runtime (needs a refresh to see it in the library) but seems to create (1 - number of props) bones even though the hierarchy when loaded from the new figure is Figure > Body > Prop1 > etc.

Anyway, I think I have more than sufficient answers to my question to go and play and think up my next stupid question!

 

[Ken1171]

That last one "Keep Vertex Order" with "Poly Groups" checked seems to do what you need. Are you sure MAX doesn't have a similar import option ?

3DSMAX has 2 options to import an OBJ: split everything, or weld everything. In either cases the geometry is changed. Welding at import means loosing all body groups, and splitting means it will become impossible to edit UV or morphs. The same happens in Maya. The problem is that Poser and DS use "groups" in a different way than other 3D applications.

I am glad you've got your answers sorted out! ^____^

 

[3dcheapskate]

Me too ! More stupid questions coming soon over in the content creation forum...

Regarding Poser/DS using groups in a different way - everything I know (or more precisely, think I know) about 3D modelling comes from making my own stuff for Poser/DS in Blender, so Poser/DS's oddities are the norm for me. No wonder I'm always confused !

 

[Ken1171]

Oh, I was VERY confused for YEARS until someone explained to me that these "groups" we use everyday in Poser/DS are some kind of special case not supported in 98% of 3D applications. I was a Poser-only guy for years until I started creating contents for DS, and that's when this particular issue came up because OBJs I have exported from Poser would not work in DS, even when it's the same figure. This is because DS4 uses single mesh, while Poser doesn't. Instead, Poser offers to "weld" the groups when exporting to OBJ, and that alters the vertex order, which on its turn, invalidates the OBJ as a morph target for DS.

However, the original Dawn and Dusk OBJs for Poser are both SINGLE mesh, and can be used in DS without problems. It's the OBJs exported from Poser that can become an issue because Poser, by default, doesn't use single mesh geometry internally.