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Little set back

Ken1171

Wise
Contributing Artist
9th Generation Intel Core i7-9750H (6-Core, 12MB Cache, up to 4.5Ghz w/Turbo Boost)
M.2 1TB PCIe Class 40 Solid State Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti 6GB GDDR6
16GB, 2x8GB, DDR4, 2666MHz

Mine has a 5th Generation i7-5930K (6-cores, 3.5GHz, up to 4GHz on turbo), with 16GB DDR-4 RAM. Your processor is 4 generations newer than mine, and can clock 0.5GHz faster, but this old Haswell-E still runs any 3D application with ease. Of course, being a full-featured i7 helps, coupled with a modern RTX card - it can handle anything. Maybe the overpowered RTX 3090 makes up for the old processor. Sometimes I think I don't have enough RAM with 16GB, but that's easy to fix. 3D in general is a memory hog, so it helps to have more RAM. In this aspect, the days of 4GB and 8GB are gone. I believe 16GB is a minimum for handling 3D scenes nowadays.

The two things that will make the most difference for the type of work most of us do is RAM and graphics card.

Having the above said, I have to agree with @parkdalegardener. I have an old processor, but that doesn't seem to matter much. RAM and GPU seem to affect 3D performance more.

I've never ever done that, buy parts and build them in myself. I wouldn't know where to start.
I've always bought a PC in a store or someone build it for me. I am pre-computer era you know and everything I know so far is self taught. So buying parts and building them into a PC would be the next step for me.

I used to buy ready-made PCs, but over time I understood I was overpaying, and never getting exactly what I wanted. Even when the general specs matched, I was still not getting the make and model I wanted in that price range. I am specially picky on displays, mice, and keyboard, which are the things we will handle the most. When we buy ready-made, it's 1-fits-all.

In addition, my PC has no decorative lights or a transparent side to show them off. Nowadays people are paying for a computer mounted on a Christmas tree - and you bet that adds to the cost with no added benefit. I'd rather spend my money on a good CPU cooler to keep it stable, a case with good airflow and cable management, and an 80-Plus Gold Certified PSU that will hold everything stable in the long run. I choose parts that will last from makers I trust - that is an investment in the future. These machines will last for at least 6-8 years.

It ends up cheaper than a ready-made PC, mostly because it only has what I need. Perhaps the only bummer is that I have to buy a Windows license on top of it.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I wouldn't recommend laptops for 3D rendering for 3 reasons:

* Performance is generally cut down to preserve battery life.
* 3D rendering can overheat them (reduce lifespan) due to the small form factor, which can lead to poor airflow.
* They can be more expensive than more powerful desktops.
My laptop doesn't leave the house at any time, so it's always plugged in, so I ALWAYS have a fully charged battery. Your observance may be true for those who are more apt to move their laptops around, even when still at home. Mine's set up on my desk, and that's where it stays.

I don't think I've had any renders that have been that intense where my laptop overheated, so again, it depends on how intense the renders are a user does.

As far as being more expensive than a more powerful desktop, I don't remember ever seeing that when looking for a new computer. I prefer the laptop because of the small footprint compared to a desktop, but I'm sure a lot of folks prefer the ability to take it with them, when necessary.

Needless to say, and I did this with my first DOS-based desktop back in the '90s, building your own computer while buying the separate parts can help with cost, at times, I don't have the urge to ever do that again. I don't think that's possible with a laptop in any case, but I've never looked into it, so not sure.
 

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
This particular machine barely runs Win10. It;s the earlier desktop version of Miss B's Dell XPS and came with Win 8 point something or other. Vista maybe? It upgraded itself to Win 10 the minute I connected it to the net during setup. It's the most solid machine I've ever owned but it isn't going to be taking many modern upgrades.

My work box will upgrade to Win 11, but it won't be happening. There are simple built in tools I use every day in Windoze. 3D object viewer, paint.net, Movie Maker and more. They are all removed in W11 as are a few more things in an effort to streamline everything into one giant client/server application with data protection from cryptolockers demanding bitcoins from you to get your data back.

Even new systems may not show as compatible with W11 unless you allow system encryption to be done by Microsoft. The option for it is usually turned off in the BIOS and may require flashing to turn the option on as many manufacturers turn it off to speed up system startup. If you bought a "gaming" computer to get a better graphics card and a bit more RAM then I guarantee you Trusted Module Protection or whatever they call it is turned off in the BIOS.
Wait, they are removing the 3D Object viewer? WHY? Seems silly and it's been a useful tool for quickly viewing OBJ's.
 

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
I'm actually in the market for a new desktop as mine is beginning to chug a little too much for my liking. Now that I make content I need a reliable computer for all this craziness. I did find a work around for getting on that's SORT OF easy to pay off... EBay. They now offer, interest free, payments between 6 months to 2 years depending on the price point of the computer. I had a really nice one, an AMD but it's the Rayzon 7 so comparable to an Intel in allot of ways and less heat, but the machine sold out. Went to NewEgg where it comes from and the good news it's a popular model and they will be releasing more of those. It's like $1700.00 and free shipping. With the 2 year payoff I'll only be out about 80 bucks a month which I can swing. So just waiting for restock and then I'm jumping on it.
 
Just remember what I wrote above about Raedon graphics. Nvidia or you are wasting your money on an accelerated graphics card for 3D work.

Poser, for instance; will only accept CUDA compatible graphics cards for hardware based accelerated rendering. No Raedon cards. Same with AI image denoising. NVidia GPU or Intel CPU.

Blender only sees my Nvidia cards for accelerated viewport rendering and AI denoising with the exception of the Intel Denoiser of course as I have a newer Intel Gen 10 i7 CPU in my production box.

I haven't touched a new version of zBrush in a while but I doubt they have changed from CPU support only for Pixologic products so the AMD irregardless what it has for a graphics card is a good call there.

Haven't touched Studio in a few years either so I can't recommend for that.
 

Ken1171

Wise
Contributing Artist
My laptop doesn't leave the house at any time, so it's always plugged in, so I ALWAYS have a fully charged battery. Your observance may be true for those who are more apt to move their laptops around, even when still at home. Mine's set up on my desk, and that's where it stays.

Whether or not the laptop is plugged to the wall, the hardware is cut down by design to avoid overheating inside a small factor case. This also helps with battery life, but it's not the only reason. Mobile hardware has to be slowed down to be able to operate inside a tight small case, with emphasis on low power consumption. We are given options to "optimize for performance" when plugged to the wall, but it still operates within a low power chipset design it was created to be.

I don't think I've had any renders that have been that intense where my laptop overheated, so again, it depends on how intense the renders are a user does.

It is not that the laptop doesn't heat up when rendering, but instead that it cannot heat up under penalty of thermal rush, which is a physical phenomenon where semiconductors run out of control when heated up for long enough. That's why mobile chips are designed to operate in low power, which also preserve battery life as a side effect. The downside is that mobile chips are slowed down to be able to do that. In other words, laptop hardware is slower than the desktop counterpart by design. Heating up causes "throttling", which automatically slows the machine down to preserve battery life, lower the temperature, and (literally) avoid cooking itself.

As far as being more expensive than a more powerful desktop, I don't remember ever seeing that when looking for a new computer. I prefer the laptop because of the small footprint compared to a desktop, but I'm sure a lot of folks prefer the ability to take it with them, when necessary.

I guess my point of comparison would be those so-called "gaming" laptops, which would have dedicated GPUs (not embedded into the motherboard), which end up costing more than a desktop with equivalent power. Dedicated GPUs are better for 3D rendering, so those would be the ones that could offer better 3D performance, but the cost-benefit tends to be poor. They are usually overpriced, even more nowadays when video cards have become rare and expensive beyond reason.
 

Hornet3d

Renowned
The two things that will make the most difference for the type of work most of us do is RAM and graphics card. Game machines have both. Most important thing right now is the graphics card. You want an Nvidia card with RTX and it's going to cost. The price of those boxes has doubled in the last year due to chip shortages. Like looking for a new game console. They make 'em but you'll have a hard time finding one. I bought a GeForce RTX 2070 july 2020 and it was less than $550 Canuk. Bucks. I see the same card for sale, at the same store I bought mine in; selling it for between $1500-$1700 right now in another tab. They are back orders. None in stock. They have an i5 gaming machine with a similar graphics card, 16 gig of RAM; and a 1TB solid state HD for $1999. Makes the gaming rig a good buy.

For the sake of the widest rang of graphics/3d software compatibility I must say stay away from AMD Raedon as a graphics option. Lots of reasons, but accelerated rendering and AI denoising options don't exist for those cards in most graphics software.

AMD Ryzen Threadripper CPUs on the other hand are great value for money if your software doesn't support hardware rendering as the more cores the better.

Can't say anything about Macs as I've never owned one.

My system is based on a Threadripper CPU, now a few years old but it has been a great system.

Full spec is Gigabyte AMD Aorus X399 Xtreme E-XTX Motherboard, AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU all housed in a Fractal Design XL R2 equipped with four large fans. Storage - Samsung 500gig 970 EVO m.2, Samsung 500Gig 860 EVO SSD. I have had two failures the first to go was the PSU followed quite quickly by the 970 Evo m.2 but both were replaced under warranty.

For the first couple of years all my renders were CPU based but since Poser 12 all but the really complex renders are GPU. I guess it would make a good gaming system but I doubt many games would make use of 32 threads.
 
Yep. Nvidia graphics card. That's a great example of what I was talking about. Lots of CPU cores for programs like zBrush and a good CUDA card for GPU rendering. I haven't seen a GTX card in a while. Think all the Nvidia cards are RTX these days but there is most certainly nothing wrong with your GTX card.

Truth be told I haven't played a game on computer since GTA III. I have an XBOX for that and I haven't used it in over a year. The DVD drive went on it and I just haven't bothered to replace it. That's where the new game console statement above came from. I have some money stashed to replace it with a new XBOX One X but they are unavailable in the stores and I won't buy one from some random online, so maybe by Christmas; but I doubt it
 

Hornet3d

Renowned
Yep. Nvidia graphics card. That's a great example of what I was talking about. Lots of CPU cores for programs like zBrush and a good CUDA card for GPU rendering. I haven't seen a GTX card in a while. Think all the Nvidia cards are RTX these days but there is most certainly nothing wrong with your GTX card.

Truth be told I haven't played a game on computer since GTA III. I have an XBOX for that and I haven't used it in over a year. The DVD drive went on it and I just haven't bothered to replace it. That's where the new game console statement above came from. I have some money stashed to replace it with a new XBOX One X but they are unavailable in the stores and I won't buy one from some random online, so maybe by Christmas; but I doubt it

The only game I have played on my desktop is No Man's Sky and that is only for brief periods when I cannot be bothered to boot up the Xbox. With the exception of No Man's Sky most of my Xbox playtime is spent on driving games as I drive so rarely in real life and probably even less with fuel shortages and higher prices. No driving games on the desktop though as it is missing the steering wheel, pedal set and gear change that the Xbox has.
 

Ken1171

Wise
Contributing Artist
I have recently played some games (finally), and Horizon Zero Dawn was the most amazing one I had seen in a long time. It was one of these PS4 exclusives that finally came to the PC, where I could play them. Everything in the game was amazing, extremely entertaining from beginning to end - except for the NPC and side-mission dialogs, which were 100% filled with feminist/SJW propaganda. I wish they could keep politics out of my games, but it was a great experience if I overlooked that side. The 3D model designs were just awesome, and the story was captivating. It reminded me of large, beautiful, expansive open world games like Far Cry, Just Cause, and Assassin's Creed, but in a retro sci-fi theme. They did a great job making the world look alive and believable. ^___^
 

pommerlis

Noteworthy
Contributing Artist
@Miss B & @Ken1171

What do you guys think about these All-in-One Computers? These things are build into a big screen. No more big box next to the screen anymore.
Like for example the ACER Aspire C27-1655 I7610 NL?!
Would you reccommend anything like that?

 

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I wouldn't. We were using Dell all in one computers at work, and while they were fine for most of the company, they weren't powerful for us (developers). So, I'd question whether they would work for what we do.
 
This might not be the best, but that is only my opinion.

The CPU while latest gen for an i7, is a 4 core chip to reduce heat. It has 8 threads. My last gen i7 has 8 cores, 16 threads and a faster basic clock speed. Point is that all CPUs are not the same even with a similar name.

The MX graphics card is 2 gig which will rapidly run out of RAM even on a smaller project if you start with a few hi-res texture maps and it does not run the full GTX instruction set according to GeForce. That means that the newer de-noising options in some software may not be available to you. Ask anyone here with a newer GTX or better still; an RTX instruction set card about how much faster your renders are with the newer instruction sets. The heat generated by these cards is beyond the ability of most all-in-ones to dissipate. Since the video is onboard, swapping it out won't happen even if you could get a regular video card to fit in the case.

I feel like I'm raining on a parade. This might be a good machine for some people, but it isn't great for us artsy graphic folk.
 

Hornet3d

Renowned
@Miss B & @Ken1171

What do you guys think about these All-in-One Computers? These things are build into a big screen. No more big box next to the screen anymore.
Like for example the ACER Aspire C27-1655 I7610 NL?!
Would you reccommend anything like that?


Having worked in a computer repair shop for a few years I have to say I agree with those that suggest it is not a good idea. Most are basically a laptop type board shoehorned into a overlarge monitor case. They are generally hard to work on, many of the parts are not off the shelf items and thus more difficult and expensive to repair. They have the added problem that, if the monitor fails, you are looking to replace the whole thing.

They generally lack the power of the desktop equivalent and often than not the reference to CPUs such as i7 and i5 are more a nod to marketing than any direct comparison to the desktop equivalent. In summary I have to say I find it hard to recommend all in ones for any serous work and if you are looking for a general use computer that has a small footprint I suspect a NUC unit to be a better option.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
@Miss B & @Ken1171

What do you guys think about these All-in-One Computers? These things are build into a big screen. No more big box next to the screen anymore.
Like for example the ACER Aspire C27-1655 I7610 NL?!
Would you reccommend anything like that?

I happen to agree with the comments already made. I work on a laptop, which certainly doesn't have the full power of a desktop, but I don't find it holding me back at all. I have one of the newer GTX cards which runs on the same system as the RTX cards, and this puppy has 6 cores, not 4 cores, and I find my renders are quick and easy.

That said, I don't do intense scenes much anymore, but I suspect I wouldn't have much trouble. What I would suggest, however, is to look for a Small Form Factor desktop, at least that's what Dell calls them. Other manufacturers may call them something else, but I'm sure most would have something similar. It's basically shorter, and narrower, so not so overwhelming in size.

Other than that, I never liked the idea of an all-in-one system, so can't really recommend it.
 

pommerlis

Noteworthy
Contributing Artist
Thank you all, I had figured as much. Thought I would ask advice anyway.
I'm all selftaught but I can never really gain all the tech-know how about computers. Being of the pré-computer era and only domestic high school I can only catch up so far.
A basic desktop it is then, with a new keyboard.
 

Ken1171

Wise
Contributing Artist
Sorry, got a bunch of commission jobs this week, and have only seen this now. I agree with what was said above - all-in-ones can be a risky business because they try to be many things, but tend to do it poorly due to budget cuts on the making. The 4-cores processor is a sign of that. If you would buy a new computer now, 6 cores would be a minimum for nowadays standards. Mine has 6 cores, and it's from over half a decade ago.

A video card with only 2GB VRAM is also a compromise if you want to work with 3D scenes. 3D is notorious for being a memory hog. If you can't get a stronger CPU, at least try getting more RAM and VRAM. If you can't afford an RTX video card, the GTX 1080 Ti used to be the best pick, but I don't know how hard would it be to find one. Or maybe because RTX keeps being ridiculously overpriced, many have opted for the old 1080, which may prevent it from getting cheaper.

If you know you want to run 3D on it, those are the things you should look for.
 

pommerlis

Noteworthy
Contributing Artist
Thank you all so much for your advice, I really appreciate it.

@Ken1171 Getting a GTX might not be so hard since I live in "Philips"-town. They are working their behinds of to produce all the machines needed for the chips-production at this time. ASML is doing overtime for months now. But it's going to cost so I don't know if I should wait.
I'm cleaning up the old laptop and am going to check out what I can do with the ooooooold desktop.
For creating poses that should do the trick I think. I am going to treat myself on a new keyboard though,
The laptop's Z, V, B & space don't work anymore and the extra keyboard I have on decided now that the C & 8 won't work anymore from now on so I'm switching between keyboards.
Starting to feel like a member of a symphonic rock band with a stack of synthesizers in front of me. :):):)
 
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