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Is Dawn "older" than V4?

eclark1894

Seasoned
No, you're not reading that wrong. I know that V4 was created first. But does she represent a younger age figure than Dawn? Say around 18-27? And let's say Dawn represents a slightly older female , around 28 to 35?

I ask because V4 was dressing in clothing that was styled with youth and vitality in mind. Some people called it slutwear, others called it bold and daring. But I'm just not seeing those same styles for Dawn. Maybe the people that used to dress her have moved on???
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I have to agree with Satira. DAZ didn't create all the content for any of the Vickies, and HW hasn't created all the content for Dawn. It's what the CAs here, and the vendors at Renderosity, decide to create for her. If that's how they see her, then that's how she's going to look.

What their thinking is as far as the type of clothing to create for Dawn, I have no idea. If you want younger, stylish clothing and characters, then you have to be able to convince the content creators that's what she needs. I personally like a variety, so content for a 20 yr. old, and content for a 35 yr. old, would appeal to me if I like the look. I don't mind rendering Dawn to look "sophisticated", which most folks would consider as someone in their early to mid-30s. That doesn't necessarily mean she "is" in her early to mid-30s, just that she sometimes looks that way.
 

Rae134

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I've seen Dawn in skimpwear and with younger looking morphs and I've also seen her looking like an old witch.
I think it comes down to who's doing the render. A lot of content creators will create something because that is what they like/need and then make it available for others.

I think you wont find too many skimpwear images here because the Hive is seen as wholesome because they have young ones that visit. In saying that, I have a few images in my gallery where she's not wearing much but I think still tasteful?
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
The bikini as originally presented wasn't much to look at, but there have been texture sets for it. Also, DawnSE is so much sexier in and of herself than the original Dawn, so yes I still think the bikini could help her look more youthful.

There are lots of ways to make someone look more youthful, or more mature, and clothing is just one of them, which I don't think makes the character herself "older" or "younger". Just look at Diva, a character for Dawn, and ask yourself if Dawn's really older than V4.
 

kobaltkween

Brilliant
Contributing Artist
No, you're not reading that wrong. I know that V4 was created first. But does she represent a younger age figure than Dawn? Say around 18-27? And let's say Dawn represents a slightly older female , around 28 to 35?

I ask because V4 was dressing in clothing that was styled with youth and vitality in mind. Some people called it slutwear, others called it bold and daring. But I'm just not seeing those same styles for Dawn. Maybe the people that used to dress her have moved on???
While I do think that Dawn has a more angular and defined face than V4's Aiko influenced face, I think it has more to do with the community than the figure. Bold and daring would mean active wear. Youth alone would mean a whole lot stuff that you pretty much never see for V4. Most clothing for V4 was stuff I'd never see anyone wear who wasn't a stripper or a prostitute. I've got nothing against either profession, but that's a pretty limited aesthetic. And she inherited that tendency from V3, whose face looks the same age as Dawn's.

I see _tons_ of images of Dawn that are children. I don't see Dawn depicted as any less bold or active than V4. But she's not often dressed like a stripper. I see lots of teen and younger V4 characters in stripperwear at deviantART by specific artists, and I honestly just don't think they'd fit on this site. The HiveWire3D team set a tone for their work from the start, and explicitly said they wanted the site to be family friendly. Dawn's bikini isn't so much "tame" as normal for actual young women on the beach or at the pool (in other words, probably the most risque they ever look in public), even as young as in their teens.

Conversely, DAZ had no problem banning nudity but promoting fetishwear. My husband, who has absolutely no problem with nudity or sexualized media, used to comment on DAZ ads and how creepy he found them. And how extreme it had to be for him to find it creepy. He's absolutely never reacted to a HiveWire3D ad negatively.

I think equating "youthful" and "sexy" is already really limiting for characters, and HiveWire3D has consistently fostered a more inventive and creative environment than that. Dawn has tons of sexualizing content (a lot of it from ken1171, and very high quality), but that's not all she has or even the majority of it. Conversely, if all an artist cares about is sexualization of females who look like they're in their teens, then there's no reason to move on from V4 or deviate from the DAZ standard. Right now, Dawn is off the beaten path, so the artists who come to her are the ones who aren't like everyone else in some way or another.

Add in the fact that three of HiveWire's core artists focus on nature (plants, birds, and horses), and you have a situation where you're just going to see less stripperwear and more of everything else.
 

Hornet3d

Wise
I think it very much depends on the artist and the look they are trying to achieve when they have a render forming in their head. In my case my renders are story line stuff and therefore need a consistent approach. I have made a conscious effort to create a character who looks slightly more mature than the norm, but then I did that with V4 as well. As the story continues I have begun to develop a sense of the character and so for me the question is often 'is that the sort of clothing this character would wear'. That may sound mental to some but think of how you develop a character in you own mind as you read a book, would you put Agatha Christie's Miss Marple in a bikini for example.

I also try to make my renders believable in lighting, textures and nature. As another example I am not going to send any character into battle with massive sword but looking like she is heading for bed. Fighting with a bare midriff does not seem to be a good strategy for remaining uninjured to me.

The other factor is what content is purchased and how the artist uses it. If there is a predominance of young clothes and the artist uses the content from the box the figure will tend to look young but what you buy is only part of the matter. I have used forest ranger outfits and turned them to sci fi outfits by playing with the textures or mix and matched some modern day clothing to make it look Victorian, again playing with the textures along the way.

For me the figure, whether it be V3,V4, Genesis, Dawn or any other figure it is just a manikin, the nature and style is down to the artist, after all, they are the ones dressing the window.
 

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
Speaking of bikinis ...

Imagine my surprise when I was driving home from work a week or so ago, and I saw a woman who looked to be in her 30s walking in a tiny bikini. The bikini bottom was just a bit of cloth in the front and back that tied on the sides. Granted, we've had some pretty hot and humid days this summer, but still ... it's just not something one tends to see in a business section.

Mind you ... one does see quite a few odd things in Center City.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
And she inherited that tendency from V3, whose face looks the same age as Dawn's.
Back in the days of V3 there was Laura, if you wanted a "youthful" character, and I always thought Aiko4 was a youthful version of V4.

I personally think the base figures out-of-the-box, so to speak, are ageless. It's the character set and clothing, as well as the poses used, that define a 3D character's age.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Speaking of bikinis ...

Imagine my surprise when I was driving home from work a week or so ago, and I saw a woman who looked to be in her 30s walking in a tiny bikini. The bikini bottom was just a bit of cloth in the front and back that tied on the sides. Granted, we've had some pretty hot and humid days this summer, but still ... it's just not something one tends to see in a business section.

Mind you ... one does see quite a few odd things in Center City.
Geeze, I wouldn't expect to see that anywhere other than the beach, or someone's pool.
 

eclark1894

Seasoned
Back in the days of V3 there was Laura, if you wanted a "youthful" character, and I always thought Aiko4 was a youthful version of V4.

I personally think the base figures out-of-the-box, so to speak, are ageless. It's the character set and clothing, as well as the poses used, that define a 3D character's age.
Personally, I hated Aiko 4. I think I bought 2 outfits for her, and no more. I loved A3 because I used her for anime. She was actually my favorite DAZ figure for a while. For a younger version of V3 I was more into Stephanie Petite. I hated when then killed her off as a morph of V4. I even did a render of her being eaten or absorbed by V4.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Oh, and I'm of the opposite thinking, as I was never really into doing anime, so A3 wasn't a character I was ever interested in, but A4 looked more realistic to me, though I didn't use her nearly as often as I used (still use) V4.

I also preferred Stephanie 4 to Stephanie Petite but, I have to say, I did like Stephanie Petite better than V3. Of course, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, which is why having a variety of characters to work with is always a good thing.
 

Rae134

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I don't think default V4 and Dawn look too much different except V4 has a more boyish body compared to Dawn. I think it comes down to how they are posed and dressed. (Also Dawn SE comes with 3 faces and I think one of those makes her look a bit younger) Ignore Dawns eyes, I forgot to change them back to her default.
V4 Dawn.jpg
 

Rae134

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
And just to compare all the Vicky's (from V4 up, I don't have the earlier ones). I think V8 looks the oldest, the others could kinda be comparable (within 5 years of each other?)
V5, V6, V4, Dawn, V7, V8
V4 Dawn V5 V6 V7 V8.jpg
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
I think I have made Dawn look like a bit of everything since she came out. She is quite versatile and the age can easily be adjusted to anything you like. I think Dawn looks quite youthful in my last render. She could be well in her early 20s here, and I have only used morphs on the face - the body is the default. Like it was said above, it depends on the artist.

Portrait_640.jpg
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
She does look youthful Ken, and I agree. It's what each individual artist turns the character into that determines her age.
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
Right? Hornet3D has made her look older, and I usually make her look younger. I don't need age-specific morphs to make her look younger, it's just the way we portrait her. I think Dawn can be anything you want.
 

sapat

Brilliant
QAV-BEE
The Vicky generations have made progress. They look from younger to a bit older, but it's not to say you can't make G8F look more youthful too. She can be as sexy as anyone wants, or even made into someone like Edie who has an old wrinkled face. It's the vendors who drive the bus and give us the content flow, otherwise we'd have nothing but Vicky in her 'basic wear'. It's all about content and the drive to create. Sure it's about the money too, LOL.
Dawn has remained the same all these years. She hasn't morphed into anything new. There are no new versions and there haven't been any that I know of since SR2.
She's built so different than the Vicky's, that they can't share anything off the rack which is a pain. I understand the politics behind it. She's a HW figure and Vicky is not. But there's just not the constant flow of modern, hip, cool content for Dawn. And the only dynamic aspect for Dawn is the Poser cloth room.
Daz, of course, is always going to make stuff for their own program, no brainer. And it seems HW is primarily using Poser for their base. It's the Poser packs that come out first, and then later get converted to DS, or they don't depending on the vendor. Poser still comes first here. But I have to admit, it is getting better.

Years ago when I was using Poser, my husband would come home from work and see Poser open and 90% of the time, it would have some naked figure on the screen. He'd say 'are you working on that Poser porn?' He has no problem with the naked aspect of 3d ppl, nor do I. I do a lot of 'adult' renders myself that will never be in mainstream galleries. Wholesome is fine, and I do it, but I don't render babies, kids, toons or for the most part faeries (things with pointy ears). I'm just not a fan of those. If I absolutely have to render one of them I will, but it's usually one and done. But i'm a big fan of cats, dogs, and horses, and poses that go with a cat or dog or a horse. I adore all the flowers, birds, horses, housecat, and now our new dog and big cat here. Any of those can be added to a scene and change it from ho hum to wow.
I'm not a millennial either, I'm on SS and Medicare! But I still like to think young. I'm def not going to the beach in a bikini (and you see it all in Miami with large women in their 70's and 80's on the beach wearing 2 piece suits.....(barely wearing). Well maybe i would if I find a cane that works in the sand!! :D

Edited to say: Ken is doing great shapes with Dawn!
 
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