how to have poser select the underlying figure instead of the conforming element

[FreyrStrongart]

I have a replacement for the Hivewire horse, where the frontlegs are replaced by conforming flippers. When I click on the flippers it always selects the flipper element, not the Horse element, which, for posing purposes ist extremely annoying. How can i cause Poser to ignore the flipper and select the underlying horsebone? And please tell me it's a simple process and I don't need to select every single bone individually!

And since I am just asking... is there a way to have all the dials of a certain number of bones selected all at once so that I can change identical things just once?

 

[English Bob]

Right-click in the document window in the area where you want to select. You'll get a menu which will enable you to select anything that's underneath your cursor at the time.

Selecting many dials at once isn't possible as far as I know. I'd be delighted to be put right on that score. You can build an extra dial which will control several others, ERC style, but that sounds a little too permanent for what you want to do.

 

[FreyrStrongart]

Right-click in the document window in the area where you want to select. You'll get a menu which will enable you to select anything that's underneath your cursor at the time.

Selecting many dials at once isn't possible as far as I know. I'd be delighted to be put right on that score. You can build an extra dial which will control several others, ERC style, but that sounds a little too permanent for what you want to do.

Thanks for your quick reply but there is nothing in the menu that seems to give me the option to make the frontflipper non-selectable. Locking doesn't do the job and there is nothing else that seems to even remotely fit.

 

[English Bob]

I should have said, "anything visible that's underneath your cursor" - if the flippers need the underlying horse parts to be made invisible, you can't select them from the document window. You'd have to use the drop-down body part menus or the hierarchy window in that case. I like to have the hierarchy window open all the time for this very purpose, and it also makes re-parenting, and temporarily hiding things quite easy. However if your workspace is cramped already that won't help much...

 

[StudioMartillo]

I never try to use the document window for anything.
Annoying, Yes, that's all it is.
Like Bob says, just us the drop downs and the Heirarchy window.

Seems to me like you already made a 'Swim' master parameter dial for the tail.
My workstation is not on right now or I'd check real quick, only I think so, cause the way it works is pretty cool.
So it would also be cool to make one for the front flippers.
One master parameter dial could work both front flippers but to set it up you have to go through the bones one by one and set the parameters for each position on the master dial.
However you did the tail, must have been in DS or something else.
But the way it's done in Poser is not so bad, well, once it's done it's done and then the Seahorse would swim real nice.

And now that there's been talk about animation, it would be cool to make a 'swim' animation loop (by defining an animation set) and save that as a pose to go with the Seahorse.
Could be tricky. Probably need to edit the nodes in the graph at the places where the stroke changes direction cause the default node that gets made automatically will smooth that point out a little too much and it won't look natural.
Then again, cause it's underwater it might look OK. But the beginning and end of the loop might need tweeking so it looks continuous.

 

[StudioMartillo]

If workspace is limited and creating a challenge Poser has UI (user interface) 'memory dots' that save various configurations.
So for instance, you could have one setup that shows just the document window and camera controls, or perhaps the document window only with it's mini camera controls and save that to a memory dot.
Then you could have another setup with the parameter dials docked at one side and the view type selectors docked at the other and save that to a memory dot.
Then another with the above, as well as a floating Heirarchy Editor saved to another memory dot.
All of which gives a pretty quick way to change modes of working.
But then you need to have the memory dots always showing.

On the other hand you could use the keyboard shortcuts as shown in the Window dropdown menu to open and close palettes as needed.
Such as shift/control E for the Heirarachy editor, and shift/control N for the Parameter Dials etc.
Whatever display mode each palette had (floating, docked left or right) will remain when the palette comes and goes.
I like to do it this way even though I have dual monitors because even the second monitor can get too cluttered with windows and some, like the library need a lot of space.
I always have the parameter dials docked right on the main monitor, and the library and Heirarcy Editor floating on the second monitor.

 

[StudioMartillo]

I had another thought about the pose controls and animation sets.
You could set up a complete swim cycle using a series of frames, setting the joint parameters of all the actors involved on say every third frame.
Then create an animation set and select all that to add to the set and save that as a pose, with all frames included.
Then the user could load that pose and just scrub the animation to the point in the swim cycle desired and save that as a single frame pose.
That way the Seahorse could be loaded into a scene and quickly posed in that swimming phase and moved around to wherever the user wants in the scene.
Might be a more complete solution over-all. The mane could even be made to ripple a bit during the swim cycle to add interest as well as making the swim cycle animation set more realistic and applicable to further animation development by the user.
Easy to say, I know. But seems like a good idea.

 

[FreyrStrongart]

I had another thought about the pose controls and animation sets.
You could set up a complete swim cycle using a series of frames, setting the joint parameters of all the actors involved on say every third frame.
Then create an animation set and select all that to add to the set and save that as a pose, with all frames included.
Then the user could load that pose and just scrub the animation to the point in the swim cycle desired and save that as a single frame pose.
That way the Seahorse could be loaded into a scene and quickly posed in that swimming phase and moved around to wherever the user wants in the scene.
Might be a more complete solution over-all. The mane could even be made to ripple a bit during the swim cycle to add interest as well as making the swim cycle animation set more realistic and applicable to further animation development by the user.
Easy to say, I know. But seems like a good idea.

lol... I am not really concerned about an animation. My problem ist that I cannot pose the flippers easily because I need to use the horse bones for the movement, as the flipper is conformed to harry's forelegs. And it is extremely annoying if i click on the upper arm for example and the flipper gets selected instead of harry's forearm. Makes posing extremely annoying if you have to select the bones through the hierarchy. I just want to get direct access to Harry's bones and make the flipper unclickable. It would make posing a lot easier and customer friendly.

 

[StudioMartillo]

Well now, you know I try to help you out, as I've shown in past.
So, how to say this?
What you are doing is somewhat unconventional. But it's good, it's creative.

This conforming feature really is meant for clothing and looking at the Poser manual you can see that after conforming clothing has been added to a figure it suggests that poses be used for the figure.
No doubt this is because it then gets real hard to select the figure in the document window.

As I have just posted, to me it is annoying to have to use the document window instead of the dropdowns. The opposite of your impression of Poser's interface.

Usually you can see, well I think three dropdowns. Two on the left, one for figure selection and one for actor selection, and one above the parameter dials for selecting just about anything. It first shows categories, then expands out to show all the items in the category.
Ah, yes, this is in PP2014 so maybe it's a bit different in P11.

But anyway, the primo way of making a character 'friendly' when used with conforming things added to it is to provide poses.
Oh there are a lot of poses available for Harry, but none of them expect him to be swimming in the sea.
You have invented a whole new character really, or mostly so, cause he's not a land animal anymore.

Providing poses is a conventional practice. Especially for unique characters.
And probably because it's hard to predict how other people will use the interface and the tools. So many ways possible.

Yes, I really do think it would be best to create some poses. I think you have a vision of how you expect the Seahorse to work.

 

[FreyrStrongart]

@StudioMartillo
Ok I see what you mean. Different ways of working... in fact picking bones in poser via the document window is rather annoying too, because it seems to select the backward bone rather than the bone facing the user... so... did I by any chance mention that I hate poser?...
looks like I will leave things as they are. But thanks for going through things for me.

 

[quietrob]

I for one, Love Poser. However, you may find better results with it's competitors.

Still, text can leave some questions. Here is another unoffical mini-tutorial

Neural Interface ready? Let's go.

Step One. Load your figure with it's conforming clothes or props. It doesn't matter if they overlap. In this case, we'll use a simple scene with a few items in it.
Screenshot 1

Step 2 I want to select the backpack but I want to keep this perspective. In this case, there is a hoodie and a body in front the backpack. We know where it is so I'll RIGHT CLICK on her chest. Check out the result of the right click.

A list of everything under the cursor appears. While there are many things you can do, your issue was selection of a body part that is covered or obscured by another part or prop. With a single click I simply can select the hoodie chest, figures chest, the backpack or even the prop behind all the figures. Total clicks to select an item - 2. There are many ways to select an item but what's easier than two clicks?

So hover your cursor over the items location. Right Click. Select from the menu. You're done. End of tutorial.

Does this solve your problem?

 

[FreyrStrongart]

@quietrob
Your explication is very clear, thanks. My issue was for ease of use for the end user of my product. If people are happy to work this way, then I don't need to worry about something which works in DAZ but not in Poser. Which is obviously the case so for me the problem is solved. Thanks for your answer

 

[StudioMartillo]

If people are happy to work this way, then I don't need to worry about something which works in DAZ but not in Poser.

Sounds like you're getting kind of depressed.
I think I contributed to this problem. Or maybe caused it.
Because I never use the document window it didn't occur to me what would happen with the base figure body parts set not visible.
So if this character you're currently working with was made by the BuildHybridFigure.py script it could be changed.
The body parts could be set to not visible in render instead, which means that you would still see Harry's fore-legs and cannons etc in the preview, and the selection would work normally. But those body parts would not show or cast shadows etc. in the render.
It's not the same as the property 'Set Visible in Raytracing' or 'Set Visible In Camera' and there's no way to change it in the properties panel.

It would look pretty strange in the preview though.
Don't know what people who buy it would think.
Well, it must have been like that at some point so you probably already know what it looks like.

So, I changed the script that builds the hybrid figure.
It still has the same name so you could just replace the old with the new.
Maybe rename the old one BuildHybridFigure_bak.py and put the new one in the same directory and see what happens.
Think about what kind of impression customers would get seeing both sets of body parts in the preview and how to explain the way it's going to work in render.
It seems like maybe a lot of people work in the document window so here's the alternate script.

 

[StudioMartillo]

Oh yes, and you would still set the character up the same way as before, using the 'Visible' property to tell the tool what needs to be hidden.

 

[quietrob]

Oh yes, and you would still set the character up the same way as before, using the 'Visible' property to tell the tool what needs to be hidden.

I might've contributed to his depression as well. I didn't read where the body part needs to be hidden and probably posted a mini-tut that didn't need to be posted. Certainly the OP is brighter than I am to even be working on such a project. Plus I think he's using DS as the OP hates Poser.

That is one interesting solution, @StudioMartillo

 

[FreyrStrongart]

Sounds like you're getting kind of depressed.
I think I contributed to this problem. Or maybe caused it.
Because I never use the document window it didn't occur to me what would happen with the base figure body parts set not visible.
So if this character you're currently working with was made by the BuildHybridFigure.py script it could be changed.
The body parts could be set to not visible in render instead, which means that you would still see Harry's fore-legs and cannons etc in the preview, and the selection would work normally. But those body parts would not show or cast shadows etc. in the render.
It's not the same as the property 'Set Visible in Raytracing' or 'Set Visible In Camera' and there's no way to change it in the properties panel.

It would look pretty strange in the preview though.
Don't know what people who buy it would think.
Well, it must have been like that at some point so you probably already know what it looks like.

So, I changed the script that builds the hybrid figure.
It still has the same name so you could just replace the old with the new.
Maybe rename the old one BuildHybridFigure_bak.py and put the new one in the same directory and see what happens.
Think about what kind of impression customers would get seeing both sets of body parts in the preview and how to explain the way it's going to work in render.
It seems like maybe a lot of people work in the document window so here's the alternate script.

Wow... thanks for trying to help me out. But in all honesty as this is mostly a user side problem, I think it will be better to just leave it to them to deal with it... after all, they have to pose figures with clothing, if they can handle that they can handle the flippers . I just come from a different universe and had different expectations to the matter. For now I have given up on it and I am too... annoyed to change the set again for something that is probably not even a concern for most people. But I will keep this script around for another time... I do want to make mer people and the same problem might pop up again. *grins* and I am a she

 

[StudioMartillo]

OK.. good choice.
I just didn't want to feel guilty for making the hybrid characters work to my own preferences.
Not having thought about others. Cats are selfish like that.
I bet people get confused about your gender.
The default avatar just goes by what gender you put in your profile.
But Freyr is Swedish for Lord isn't it? That's probably what confuses English and Spanish speakers.
In English it's like, Lord and Lady and Spanish everything has a gender.
Martill0, that's masculine. Wouldn't you know a hammer has to be a guy, always banging away at things.
Don't matter to me. As they say 'Cats don't care'.

 

[FreyrStrongart]

lol.. I know.. Freyr is male.. ought to be Freya but I used to be a dwarf in an RPG and the name just stuck...

 

[quietrob]

And my apologies for the mistake. I should've seen that Feminine Avatar and used proper gender jargon. Were you a female or a male dwarf in the RPG? Oh!!!! Do you have a screenshot of your RPG character?