Converting Gnobbit to DS a wip

[Bejaymac]

Thanks for the info. Just wanted to remind you that prior to the genesis line of figure Daz Studio and Poser both used a similar (parametric joint parameter) rigging with V4 and previous figures being Daz Studio creations. The rigging at that time was compatible with both Poser and DS. Once weight mapping came on the scene, Poser figures and DS figures began to diverge as to rigging. So, yes, trying to convert a parametric joint rigged figure or a Poser weight mapped figure to DS can often lead to unwanted results. Luckily, the Gnobbit, while a Poser weight mapped figure, does not have a complicated skeleton set up, so converting it to TriAx wm works fine. I am only finding a few places where the wm needs to be touched up. Otherwise, the morphs and dials and rigging works pretty much the same in both Poser and DS. The only difficulty I have encountered at present is in not being as familiar with the rigging and wm tools in DS since I am new to using these. However, I am catching on quite well and making progress.

Actually DS has never user Parametric rigging, it's been a general WM system since the very early days, what catches most out is that Rob and the team are masters of illusion, they make things "look" like they work the same in DS and Poser, even the Figure Setup Tools for DS2 made people think they were rigging parametric when they weren't, all of that "smoke and mirrors" was deliberate, just imagine the s***storm DAZ would have caused if V4 actually bent better in DS than she did in Poser.

 

[CG Cubed]

Just for clarity I want to mention that as a former DAZ production member, I was part of the creation of the initial rigging tools in DS, testing and using them, as Rob and team built them.

The Parametric rigging is nothing more than weight maps that are established using the sphere zones, with different weight maps for each rotation. It was developed in Poser first and then later, in DS.

DS could read the Poser established rigging, but DS had no tools to create the figures in app. The objective was not better bending at that time, but a way to create figures without leaving the program. Before the DAZ Studio rigging tools , DAZ created the figures with a lot of hand coding, especially to create the erc connections. V4 was created in this way, before the new rigging tools were implemented. At that time, Poser had the Setup Room and magnets but, no way to create the fancy erc/emc connections that Rob and Nerd 3D discovered. INJ/REM files were made by hand coding or new third party utilities. DS tools would create figures using spheres and deformers, which were basically like magnets. DAZ would later develop a method for painting the weights and using single skin meshes, which was more in line with the standardized weight mapping of the industry. Genesis would be the first platform that did not support the native Poser rig. They still used multiple weight maps for the rotations and they did have a single weight map option but, It was not until Genesis 3 that the dual quaternion system was improved/finalized.

 

[mininessie]

how interesting!

 

[RAMWolff]

This is awesome Pen. Hope the little guy becomes a DS compatible store item. I'd buy it up in a heartbeat. He would be fun to create some content for actually!

 

[Pendraia]

The thing to always remember is that Studio has never used Poser rigging, the PZ3Importer plugin has always converted it into a general WM with hidden "helpers" to make it appear to bend the same in both DS and Poser. In DS4 that "convert to WM" basically just deletes the hidden "helpers", some figures still work to an extent without them, while others can be a right mess when you try to bend them, that's why I always tell people not to use it unless they plan on redoing the WM....

Thanks for the info Bejaymac...I remember having this conversation with you when I was trying to bring poser figures in to DS. I agree that the weight maps would really need to be looked at for a commercial product.

This initially started just as a personal interest project as I wanted this little guy in DS. He's just too cute! I was surprised at how well he did convert which is why I started this thread. I thought that there may be others who also wanted to play with Gnobbit in DS.

I didn't see too many duplicated linked morphs. I did move some things around in the parameter tab to tidy them up. I initially thought that there were some morphs that didn't work but when I looked into it it turned out they did but they were mcm's. These are the files I moved in the parameter tab to a new section called Hidden Files iirc...and they are also now actually ticked as hidden in the parameter tabs. I still need to go through them and adjust the limits to ensure they are right.

I did have a quick look at the weightmaps and some do need some minor adjusting but as I've said earlier people who want to do this for personal use could actually add a smoothing modifier and this does fix some of the bends. I found that the figure was quite usable this way. Not production quality as I said earlier...but then the standards for a vendor are higher than someone who just wants to have a play and create a few renders with it.

Great stuff happening here! Thanks for sharing this, Pen!

Thanks! I think it's important to share stuff like this as I'm sure I wasn't the only one wondering about this...

Actually DS has never user Parametric rigging, it's been a general WM system since the very early days, what catches most out is that Rob and the team are masters of illusion, they make things "look" like they work the same in DS and Poser, even the Figure Setup Tools for DS2 made people think they were rigging parametric when they weren't, all of that "smoke and mirrors" was deliberate, just imagine the s***storm DAZ would have caused if V4 actually bent better in DS than she did in Poser.

I never knew this...thanks for sharing the info.

Just for clarity I want to mention that as a former DAZ production member, I was part of the creation of the initial rigging tools in DS, testing and using them, as Rob and team built them.

The Parametric rigging is nothing more than weight maps that are established using the sphere zones, with different weight maps for each rotation. It was developed in Poser first and then later, in DS.

DS could read the Poser established rigging, but DS had no tools to create the figures in app. The objective was not better bending at that time, but a way to create figures without leaving the program. Before the DAZ Studio rigging tools , DAZ created the figures with a lot of hand coding, especially to create the erc connections. V4 was created in this way, before the new rigging tools were implemented. At that time, Poser had the Setup Room and magnets but, no way to create the fancy erc/emc connections that Rob and Nerd 3D discovered. INJ/REM files were made by hand coding or new third party utilities. DS tools would create figures using spheres and deformers, which were basically like magnets. DAZ would later develop a method for painting the weights and using single skin meshes, which was more in line with the standardized weight mapping of the industry. Genesis would be the first platform that did not support the native Poser rig. They still used multiple weight maps for the rotations and they did have a single weight map option but, It was not until Genesis 3 that the dual quaternion system was improved/finalized.

Thanks for the info Paul! After hand editing files to do the Poser version of Diva, I'm blown away by the fact that V4 was created in this way...

Thanks everyone for all the likes and good comments! This little guy is a bit of side project that I started when I had a free half hour...come this weekend (I have a 3 day weekend) I'm hoping to get some serious time in on Diva and also try to finish her during the holidays. In the meantime I will putter around with this guy when I only have small periods of time to work on something.

Edited to add holidays are the term holidays coming up over Easter.

 

[shadownet]

Just for clarity I want to mention that as a former DAZ production member, I was part of the creation of the initial rigging tools in DS, testing and using them, as Rob and team built them.

The Parametric rigging is nothing more than weight maps that are established using the sphere zones, with different weight maps for each rotation. It was developed in Poser first and then later, in DS.

DS could read the Poser established rigging, but DS had no tools to create the figures in app. The objective was not better bending at that time, but a way to create figures without leaving the program. Before the DAZ Studio rigging tools , DAZ created the figures with a lot of hand coding, especially to create the erc connections. V4 was created in this way, before the new rigging tools were implemented. At that time, Poser had the Setup Room and magnets but, no way to create the fancy erc/emc connections that Rob and Nerd 3D discovered. INJ/REM files were made by hand coding or new third party utilities. DS tools would create figures using spheres and deformers, which were basically like magnets. DAZ would later develop a method for painting the weights and using single skin meshes, which was more in line with the standardized weight mapping of the industry. Genesis would be the first platform that did not support the native Poser rig. They still used multiple weight maps for the rotations and they did have a single weight map option but, It was not until Genesis 3 that the dual quaternion system was improved/finalized.

Thanks for explaining this. I confess I am not in the know on DS so much. It is a super great software and has rightfully earned its place.

 

[shadownet]

@Pendraia - like you I started making the conversion of the Gnobbit as I felt there should be a DS version. I did this because Kenneth and I are great friends and have worked together over the years on many projects. As I got more into using Daz Studio I got more interested in learning to use the rigging tools and in attempting to convert some of the Poser only content to Daz Studio for the benefit of those who would like to have a DS version of our or his projects. Unlike you, my efforts have been one of learning DS as I go along, drawing only on what I know about rigging from other software and having to find my way around. Sort of rigging by braille as it were. Kenneth brought my attention to your thread and I was so happy to see someone else was making the same efforts. I hope I in no way appeared to be stealing your thunder or hijacking your thread as this was never my intentions. My goal has been only to see this little guy made available for use in Daz Studio. I welcome any help and advice or contributions you care to make to that effort and I know Kenneth does too. I have my rigging of the Gnobbit figure done. I have no idea how this stacks up or compares to yours. I would love if you had time to take a look at it. If you would be interested please email me at shadownet3d@gmail.com and I will provide you send you the files (sans textures as you have those, so small file around 4mb).

 

[Pendraia]

Hey Shadownet,
First, I have no hassle with you posting in this thread and certainly don't consider it to be hijacking in any way shape or form. I'm always happy to hear from others who are attempting conversions as I feel it adds more depth to the conversations around converting.
With so many things for Dawn and Dusk being Poser only I've learnt how to convert many things across to DS. I haven't attempted to do a full figure previously but I figure the skills I've learnt with the other conversions will help me.
I totally get the concept of rigging by braille as that is pretty much how I've learnt what I have so far. I'm happy to help you by looking at your file. Just home from work and pretty brain dead so I may not get around to emailing you until tomorrow morning when I'm a bit more with it.

cheers

Pen