Archery for Writers and Artists Part 1 2019-01-03

A simple guide to archery and its equipment

  1. HaiGan

    HaiGan Engaged Contributing Artist

    HaiGan submitted a new resource:

    Archery for Writers and Artists Part 1 - A simple guide to archery and its equipment

    Read more about this resource...
     
  2. Janet

    Janet Extraordinary Contributing Artist

    Cool! I love archery! Went a few times year before last with the SCA.
     
  3. phdubrov

    phdubrov Noteworthy Contributing Artist

    Thanks!
    The thing about pinch/mongolian release generally leads to an arrow on the right side seems to be missing.
     
  4. HaiGan

    HaiGan Engaged Contributing Artist

    Thanks, I'll fix it if it needs it, only I can't find the part you are referring to? If it is the images, then one for the thumb ring shows the view as it would be from directly beneath the archer, so the string is not obvious because it is in cross-section.
     
  5. phdubrov

    phdubrov Noteworthy Contributing Artist

    I'm referring to the difference between:
    Western Europe/Mediterranian - fingers release, an arrow to the left side of the bow, quiver on the left - like the starting picture.
    Eurasian (Rome too) - pinch or thumb release, an arrow to the right side of the bow, on the left thumb, quiver on the right.
     
  6. HaiGan

    HaiGan Engaged Contributing Artist

    Ah, I see! Thank you. Yes, while I did give a single brief mention that some styles place the arrow on the opposite side of the bow, I did not illustrate that or specify which styles, or put it in conjunction with the draw technique, and I made less mention still of modern arrow rests. I'm being way more general, while hopefully providing enough key words to let people do specific research if they want to accurately portray one specific style, and I am probably erring on the side of Western European archery styles in the level of detail that I am including. I could put a little more into Part 2, which is still under construction but includes specific movies and so on that got it right and which mentions things like the side the quiver should be worn on. It might work better as a set of pocket guides to each style.

    To be honest though, I'll be reasonably happy if there's enough in this guide that it stops an artist or two from portraying a piece-of-elastic string being drawn along the outside of the bow arm instead of the inside...

    If anyone has recommendations for top-notch (in terms of accuracy) art- in published books that can be referenced or available online to link to- or currently available 3D models that they would like to recommend, do please let me know for inclusion?
     
  7. phdubrov

    phdubrov Noteworthy Contributing Artist

    :cry::cry::cry:

    Books: Osprey - Weapon series - The Longbow and The Composite Bow.
     
  8. robert952

    robert952 Eager

    Nice.

    Surprised myself on what I actually know/remember about archery.

    (And you will only forget to put on your wrist guard ONE TIME.)

    Looking forward to other parts.

    Thanks for your work here.
     
  9. DaremoK3

    DaremoK3 Enthusiast

    I'm curious if you lump me in with your belief of incorrect bow/arrow modeling based on your knowledge/beliefs... (not a dig at you - just genuinely curious)

    I see no mention of Japanese Kyudo, Native American, American Survivalist, or the likes of Brazilian Amazon Kapoto which could round out your findings, and the vast differences in equipment; Including the natural use of two feather fletching (which somehow you find erroneous).

    Also, four feather fletching is used as well, and three feather fletching is not the norm, but may be more popular, more used, or even more scientifically proven to maintain better/accurate flight. However, that does not negate the fact that if 3D modelers are creating them, that they should be considered cringe-worthy by their peers.

    I do agree with your views that some create without any research, and the inaccuracies with the bow strings/bends. I found that to be the most difficult aspect of the bow build (self bow - Na'vi Native). To produce an accurate diameter bend to the bow with taut (sinew - or - hair) strings, while maintaining realistic movement/tension throughout the draw.

    For the bow, I even went the extra mile and created string notches, but go unnoticed (unless one was to remove the string and sinew wraps).

    The arrows are two feather fletchings bound by sinew and pitch. I could not find any source material that showed otherwise (for these particular arrows), and I believe the bow/arrow creation for the movies alien natives were based on research of our own planets native tribes hand-made works.

    The arrows are also notched, and have attached glass or stone arrowheads with sinew and pitch.

    Here are a couple of example renders by client:
    Deep Forest Hunting
    Tentska and Kawte :: Aerial Hunter
    The Fight Continues
    Only could find a couple of examples of bow draw (not clearest):
    https://www.deviantart.com/drowelfmorwen/art/Tseo-teyr-Eywa-s-White-Child-57117636
    Archer
    And an example of utilizing another feather texture:
    Wameyn :: Na'vi Commission

    She does not make use of the plethora of arrow morphs I supplied, including shaft/feather/arrowhead deviations to make no one arrow the same, and wind on feather/feather flight morphs - including the feather fore-wisps.

    If you would like to see modeling/test examples from me, please, let me know, and I will upload some...

    One last thing of note: I read that many believed the 'new' grip/draw style employed by this movie was inaccurate, and impossible in real archery. Then I watched an expert archer on a weapons/archery show not only dispel the belief, but excel in the technique. He even admitted to liking the style...
     
  10. HaiGan

    HaiGan Engaged Contributing Artist

    DaremoK3, thank you so much for your long and detailed response! No, criticism of models by people that really do know what they are talking about was not my intention, especially when they know far more about specific archery traditions than I do.

    I think from your comments that I should specify in the guide that most of my knowledge is rooted in Western European archery, and comment where there are differences between traditions. I also think that although you suggest putting in more information, I should in fact include less. The reason for that being that it should make it more obvious that I am trying to help people not to make especially glaring errors, and to suggest things they might draw on for creating new fantasy elements, not to provide specific detail on all archery traditions. To give an example that you mentioned, fletchings. While three is not the norm in every tradition, nor a requirement to have an arrow that is usable, and while I should mention that in the guide and will modify soon... if you have a picture of Robin Hood in Sherwood Forest, you would expect him to be using arrows with three fletchings (of course, you would also expect him to be using an English bow not a Hungarian one, *coughBBCcough*).

    I think I saw that same Na'vi archery demonstration, or one very similar! It was very interesting, yes.
     
  11. kobaltkween

    kobaltkween Brilliant Contributing Artist

    Thanks so very much for this! I will eventually want to make an archer (and therefore a bow and everything that goes with it), and this is _exactly_ the kind of resource I'll need. Thanks so, so much!
     
  12. DaremoK3

    DaremoK3 Enthusiast

    I apologize, HaiGan. I neglected to say thank you for this wonderful primer.

    I wish I would have had this at the time when I was working on my bow. Your bow bend/string illustration is excellent, and anyone trying their hand at creating a 3D bow should use it.

    I believe you are right, maybe less info regarding differences would be better, but definitely keep going with what makes a solid translation from real world to 3D for new creators, so that they avoid the glaring mistakes such as no bow bend/elastic strings, etc.

    Also, personally, I believe three feather fletchings are superior. I just wanted to point out that if a 3D creator creates their arrows with two, or four, they are not necessarily incorrect. But, I agree with you, if one was to create a representation of a European long bow in a Robin Hood-esq fashion, the arrow fletchings should reflect it as well with three.

    I would love an honest critique by you (or anyone else here) on my bow/arrow, though, I believe seeing wires and modeling images might serve for better examples to judge from.

    Can't wait for part 2, and again, thank you.
     
  13. McG.

    McG. Admirable

    Thank you for this well researched little guide! I learned a little archery when I was a teen just before graduating high school in '72. Since that time, I learned there are many "correct" ways to shoot, make arrows, bows, stance. The two types of arrows I used were cedar three fletch and aluminum 3 fletch, target heads for both. I bought a lot of cedar arrows, rented several bows, all for indoor archery. Lessons? The owner of the lanes yelling at me from his office. Even so, he was a good teacher. Plus, I loved the exhillirating feeling of actually shooting. It took a bit of strength to draw a 40 lb recurve Bear bow. And when your form was right, a pure pleasure to watch your arrow fly to target. I learned to use split 3 finger and split 2 finger draw. Nothing else has made a lick of sense to me since then. When tired I switch from 2 to 3 finger, and use the leather draw glove and arm protector. Used right hand draw, arrow rest on knuckle on left side of bow. No problems shooting on 50 yard indoor lanes. Never shot competition, no money for entry fees. So on tournament nights, I'd pay for an hour on a lane just to out shoot the competitors. Dave (the lanes owner) though that was hillarious. He'd laugh like a maniac every time I did better with a rental recurve than they did with high dollar compound gear. I never liked those. They never felt "right" in my hands.
    Sitting here now, over 40 years later, I wonder how I'd do today? And Kodiak and Polar Bear bows still interest me.
     
  14. carmen indorato

    carmen indorato Extraordinary

    Got into archery on my own in junior high and when they started coming around went to the Renaisance fairs and did a lot of shooting there. I was fortunate to live in the suburbs and had a big yard that afforded me a good size shooting out door range to practice in. Fiberglas 30lb re-curve bow with ash arrows and both target and hunting heads (to practice learning the difference in the way they worked from target arrows).
    I found a cool archery set at DAZ sometime ago made of tree branches and loved it so much I purchased it in good faith believing the DSON Importer at the time would let me bring the set into Poser. Imagine my disappointment in not being able to do the import/conversion no matter what tried or what the DAZ Tech team tried guiding me through. It took so long the never gave me my money back. I begged them to please have someone there to do the conversion for me and was refused. I have tried breaking the rules and asking friends who also have the set to do the conversion but no go there.....desperate people do stupid things I guess. The set would have been great with the Mil4 woods God sets for V4 and M4 but alas ever got it to work.
    I wish the TOS wasn't so strict in cases like this and to this day am angry with their tech support for not helping me get it converted after the thousands of dollars I spent there since before there was a DAZ (Zygote days).
     
  15. kobaltkween

    kobaltkween Brilliant Contributing Artist

    Do you have know where one could find images of it?
     
  16. carmen indorato

    carmen indorato Extraordinary

  17. kobaltkween

    kobaltkween Brilliant Contributing Artist

    Ah, thank you! Somehow, I was expecting it to be more magical looking and less real. Interesting design, though. Thanks so much for the link! It definitely gets me thinking.
     
  18. carmen indorato

    carmen indorato Extraordinary

    well if you are thinking of doing a legal conversion for us misfortumnate enough to not be able to you got my vote!
    I would settle for two versions of it:
    One drawn and one un-drawn as .obj files even uv mapped to be able to texture them ourselves as needed. :)
     
  19. carmen indorato

    carmen indorato Extraordinary

    BTW must be for poser.............
     
  20. Satira Capriccio

    Satira Capriccio Distinguished CV-BEE Contributing Artist

    That is a cool looking bow, but would it actually work? Seems the short branches bound to the longer branches would cause problems.
     

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