WHY does photoshop do this...???

[Lyne]

Thought I'd start a general thread on annoying things this beloved program does... in hopes someone knows...

starting with : WHY when I'm brushing out on ONE LAYER with only that layer "active" (and in 'normal mode') do I end up (only sometimes) with some of the color of the layer below (I've put a white or black filled layer below so I can SEE where my edge brushing is going) getting brushed with or into my active layer? IE: brushing edge of red bird breast feathers out end up with bits of WHITE brushed with it!? (instead of nothing- being the bird image is a render from Poser with NOTHING but the bird on it... -

I mean I start with a png ... add a layer of white or black below... then save as a psd... THEN start brushing... and my edges ONLY SOMETIMES will end up with white or black on my bird's color of it's "fluff".... Grrrr!!

oh using photoshop CS3, and can't buy any other version.

 

[Stezza]

I don't have CS3 but have PSE14 maybe untick 'Sample All Layers' may help..

 

[Pendraia]

When you say brushing out what is the process you're using? Is it a standard brush or are you using the eraser? I have CS3 so I can have a look and see what's happening.

 

[Rae134]

I was thinking the same as Stezza, that you might have "sample all layers" selected

 

[Lyne]

I use the smudge tool with my 'old standby' brush called "Texture 1" have used it for YEARS and years......Nope, defiantly do not have 'sample all layers' - THAT is the crazy thing about it!! ...

here is what I STILL do: quickfur with an earlier photoshop, but I do the same thing now, but I use just ONE transparent png layer, with a white layer below to see my brush results. :/

 

[Pendraia]

I thought it might be something like that...I'm at work at the moment I'll have a look and let you know.

 

[Digitell]

If this is not your problem..maybe you could make your bottom layer invisible in your layers palate so you cant pick up colors from it?
I hope you get this solved! It must be frustrating!

 

[Jay Versluis]

To clarify the issue, could you post a screenshot or video of the problem?

 

[quietrob]

Just Pinging for Information.

Ping!

 

[Pendraia]

I had a play with one of my cat images...I don't have a fancy brush so I just used a default brush and the white layer underneath wasn't effected. I'm not going to post my image though as it didn't look wonderful just smudged. I imagine with the right brush and careful application it would work well though.

 

[Miss B]

Well, just out of curiosity, I just tried this with a render of a gal with longish hair, and a white layer below it, and the only time I had a problem with either the Blur, Sharpen and Smudge tools was when the Sample All Layers checkbox was selected. The Smudge Tool is the only one that also has Finger Painting, and which only leaves a 1 or 2 pixel "halo", but the Sample All Layers definitely causes the problem Lyne describes.

Without either of those checkboxes selected (see Digitell's screenshot), it doesn't happen, so not sure what else would cause this issue.

 

[Lyne]

So far it WORKED - to make my white layer below the one I'm 'brushing out' off... ie: click the layer so it goes off, eye closed.... interesting that even when sample all layers is NOT checked that a layer below can end up interacting with the one above it!? THANKS for the suggestion!!

again, I've NEVER had sample all layers enabled... well unless I'm cloning from one layer to another, but that is another story. I "brush out" fur a LOT and this is a great help!!

 

[Deleted member 325]

This is a property of Photoshop's Smudge tool. While disabling Sample all Layers should prevent it, the smudge tool was designed to mix nearby colors with one another - and so it will sometimes sample a lower layer of color if none is readily available. It is a pain, and should be able to sample "clear" but every now and then it glitches. I would suggest trying using a stacked "Erase" with increasing opacity to feather, or even selections that are feathered in or out from the selection menu. It takes longer, and is a pain, but will avoid any unwanted color sampling.

 

[NapalmArsenal]

Lyne, I might suggest saving your .png as a .psd file and then trying the layer and brush tool you are using. Sometimes PS doesn't like to make changes to due to preserving the transparent background of the .pngs and make sure your brush node is set to normal.

Also too, you might check under your brush presets and see if there might be something checked in there that could cause the color to be transported to the active layer. Check and see if the texture mode setting and the color dynamics control are set to off. The Wet Edges setting sometimes kind of gives this darkening on the edges check that one too.

 

[quietrob]

This is a property of Photoshop's Smudge tool. While disabling Sample all Layers should prevent it, the smudge tool was designed to mix nearby colors with one another - and so it will sometimes sample a lower layer of color if none is readily available. It is a pain, and should be able to sample "clear" but every now and then it glitches. I would suggest trying using a stacked "Erase" with increasing opacity to feather, or even selections that are feathered in or out from the selection menu. It takes longer, and is a pain, but will avoid any unwanted color sampling.

First. This is a great thread. Very informative.

Second. Could you or someone else expand on what you mean by stacked "Erase". I get unwanted colors when I'm smudging or using the correction brush as well. I also get the HALO effect when running my artwork through different PSD actions. I'd love to know how to beat it.

 

[Deleted member 325]

By "Stacked" I mean to to set the erase at very low opacity and start erasing in an area where you want to blend. Then increase the opacity a bit and go over sections of that same area. I tend to start at around 15% to 20% and increase Opacity in 10% to 15% increments. If you are feathering toward transparency, then as you get to the edge you want transparent, the Opacity of erase should be 100%. When doing this, you also don't want to completely go over the whole area you are erasing with each pass, but make it narrower and closer to the transparent edge - so you get a gradiation.

The Blur tool also works rather well, in successive applications it can blur an edge into a feathered edge (but will destroy detail and subtle nuances), but is useful after a stacked erase to help smooth the blend between the erases and remove banding.

I sometimes also do the opposite with brushes to build up layers of color slowly (especially when adding shadows).

My friend had suggested another method last night I wanted to ad, but I completely forgot already. I will need to ask him again.

 

[Deleted member 325]

I also get the HALO effect when running my artwork through different PSD actions. I'd love to know how to beat it.

I still get this too sometimes...but the best method I know of to beat it is:
Keep a layer of the initial artwork untouched with any transparent backdrops. Make copies and do all processing and filter work on your copies. Once done, go back to the original layer (make sure to make it visible if it was invisible) and select the transparent areas using Magic Wand. Invert the selection. Contract this selection by a few pixels (how many will greatly depend on the size of your artwork, but 3 to 5 is what I usually use). Invert again so that you have a selection encompassing the empty space with a few pixel "bleed" into the art. Now begin going through the various filtered and adjusted layers for this work that have an unwanted halo effect and just delete the selected area. This will work best if you leave a visible copy of the initial artwork under all of the others to maintain the border area that ends up removed.

There was, once, a much more advanced tutorial on this technique but it is long lost to the web now.

 

[quietrob]

Alright! Thanks for the tips. I use the select->Invert->method myself but it's never quite clean enough unless I put in a lot of time. I don't mind the time but I also like to be efficient with my time. Removing the halo from hair is VERY time consuming. I'll try your tips and methods. Hopefully I'll get to where I want faster.

 

[Pendraia]

That's a good idea Kage...I generally keep a virgin copy of my image and use duplicates for filters. That way you can always go back if you need to. I've discovered that in the past there are limits to PS undo and if you have it set too high then it can totally blow out and slow the system down.

I use a variety of selection methods but I do like load selection for an image on a transparent background.

 

[Deleted member 325]

Yes, setting high undos eats a lot of memory. I have mine set very high though. It is also not uncommon for me when working on a new image or experimenting to make many duplicates of any given layer to try different things on (toggling visibility of layers as I go). Only when I feel an image is "done" (or as done as I feel it will get from it's base state) do I start deleting unused layers. I also need to use groups often, as I am horrible at naming layers when I make them, and have some images with over 1000 layers.

I asked my friend again, and his suggestion to avoid the smudge tool picking up color from a lower layer was to try locking the layer.

Also, an important note about Photoshop, memory, and scratch disks - Photoshop will keep all undo history in memory and all scratch disk usage growing from the moment it is opened until it is closed, even for images you have saved and closed out. So if you are like me, and tend to have multiple graphics programs running simultaneously for long periods and notice system slowdown, it is likely Photoshop continuing to eat away at resources even if minimized and with no image loaded if you were previously working in it. At least, this was true as of the version I am most current with (CS2).