Need some advice...

[eclark1894]

Okay, I made a surfboard and textured it. Got three textures for it, which you can see in the image below. I was thinking about submitting this s a product for sale at Hivewire. I've packaged it up for Poser and it includes;
1 surfboard obj.
3 Poser surfboard pp2 files
3 texture map files
1 UV template file

I wanted to add some Material files with shaders applied for glossiness, but for the life of me I can't seem to make it work. And that's in either Superfly or Firefly.

Of course, without those nodes and shaders, everything would be the same for Studio if I decide to package it for that program. I guess what I'm asking is do I have everything that needs to be included and what needs to go where? I'm still not sure what I need to add to the data folder in Studio.

 

[Pendraia]

Hi Earl,

Not sure what you're asking here. However just wanted to mention that these files will work in DS it would be relatively easy to load them, do any material adjustments and then save them as a prop(smart or otherwise) in Duf format.

I'm not totally sure if prop files create a data file or not as I don't normally do props. Ram would know though as he did props for his workout set.

 

[Ken1171]

If what you want is to make them shiny, it's a matter of setting specular color to white, specular value to "1", and specular size to something around "0.1". Don't forget to extract the embedded geometry after you save to the library as a prop. Poser will have it embedded by default, and there is no option not to. After the geometry is extracted, you have to place it at the Geometry folder, and make the PP2 file to point to that location.

In DS, just load the props straight from the Poser library, and save them as Asset Figure/Prop if I remember this right. This will automatically create the data folder with the geometry and UV for you. Once this is done, you will still have to adjust the materials to work with DS. If your materials contain only a diffuse texture, then there is nothing to adjust and it will work as it is.

Hope it helps.

 

[eclark1894]

Oops, so it's the embedded geometry that I have to include, not the original mesh I made?

 

[Ken1171]

Good question. Since this is just a prop and has no body groups, you can use the original OBJ, but Poser will NOT use it once you save the prop to the library. Instead, it will embed the geometry into the PP2 file, so your OBJ will not be used. You have to extract the embedded geometry, and make the PP2 file point to your original OBJ. Unfortunately. Poser doesn't make it easy for us on this part. We have to do this every time we create something new. You only need to extract the geometry and fix the PP2 path once, unless you make changes on the Material Zones, in which case Poser will create a new OBJ.

 

[seachnasaigh]

Oops, so it's the embedded geometry that I have to include, not the original mesh I made?

No!
You can use any one of several utilities to extract the geometry from the PP2. Distribute the stripped PP2. You can replace the extracted geometry OBJ with your original OBJ; I often do this so that users of other 3D studios will have the MTL file along with the OBJ. Most brokerages -and many freebie sites- *require* the geometry to be extracted.

I most often use Vanishing Point's (John Hoagland's) free Geometry Stripper; but D3D's RunZip will also strip geometry while packing your item in runtime format, Netherworks' Creator's Toybox can repoint your PP2/CR2 to your own OBJ, and there's Object Extractor from EvilInnocence (makers of CrossDresser).

Why strip out the geometry?

[1] To allow for third party texture sets - a texture artist can offer a PP2 file with their new texturing, without redistributing your geometry; this is much easier for the end user if the PP2 is an array of props (not just a single prop).

[2] You can add multiple instances of the prop into a scene while only calling a single OBJ

[3] To allow for use in other 3D studios, which may not be able to interpret a PP2

 

[Ken1171]

Perhaps one more reason why we have to extract the geometry from props is that.... no store will accept it like that.

 

[Pendraia]

Ah...so it does have a data folder. Thanks Ken1171! Didn't Alisa say that they like the obj file included recently? Maybe I'm getting it back to front...

 

[seachnasaigh]

Atlantis has a lot of separate prop items so that you can hide pieces to give camera access, and you can omit pieces to save memory. This is the hierarchy list; note that several props have collapsed sub-menus, and the chairs are not shown.

If a texture artist wanted to offer an improved texture set for Atlantis, they would have to supply dozens of MT5/MC6 files. But, if I extract the geometry so that the PP2s reference remotely stored OBJs, that texture artist can offer a single assembled PP2 file, without redistributing my meshes. Easier for the texture artist, and much easier for the end user. Atlantis will have extracted (remotely referenced) OBJs.

Another reason is that there are several books with different textures (but all pointing to the same single OBJ), multiple chairs calling one OBJ, and let's see... um... eighteen couches - all sharing the same OBJ. This saves on system memory resources. I have workstations with lots of RAM, but not everybody does. I want to "put the cookies on the lowest shelf, so that even the smallest children can reach them." (J. Vernon McGee)

 

[seachnasaigh]

Ah...so it does have a data folder. Thanks Ken1171! Didn't Alisa say that they like the obj file included recently? Maybe I'm getting it back to front...

Did Alisa perhaps mean that they want a (separate, i.e., extracted) OBJ included? That is , a PP2 and an OBJ?

 

[Pendraia]

I'm not sure Seachnasaigh...I just remember seeing that they required the object file included. I'm still learning Poser but haven't done much with props yet so I didn't file it away like I would with something that affects what I'm doing. In DS with duf files you don't included the objects as Ken mentioned earlier.

Edited to add: I'm a bit confused by what you said...you talk about extracting the object from the pp2 file but wouldn't you create the pp2 file using an object? So why would you need to extract the object?

 

[eclark1894]

Okay, I know there's a thread here somewhere about geometry stripping... gotta go find it.

 

[seachnasaigh]

I'm not sure Seachnasaigh...I just remember seeing that they required the object file included. I'm still learning Poser but haven't done much with props yet so I didn't file it away like I would with something that affects what I'm doing. In DS with duf files you don't included the objects as Ken mentioned earlier.

Edited to add: I'm a bit confused by what you said...you talk about extracting the object from the pp2 file but wouldn't you create the pp2 file using an object? So why would you need to extract the object?

I'm not sure either - we'll have to wait for word from Hive central HQ (stands for Hive Queen, I guess).

As for why one should extract...
When you import an OBJ, texture it, and save it as a prop, Poser incorporates withing the prop file the geometry, any translation/rotation/scale, and all of the material nodework.

You can distribute a prop in this form, but what if someone else wants to make an alternative texture for your model? If they post their re-textured PP2, they will be re-distributing your mesh (copyright issue), plus it will add bloat to the new package because it duplicates the geometry unnecessarily. For a one-piece prop you could use an MT5/MC6, but what if it is dozens of pieces, like Atlantis? Same with most of Stonemason's sets - lots of separate parts in the hierarchy.

Then there is the issue of multiple instances; if I scatter eighteen couches in my scene, it takes less scene file storage MB and less memory to hold the working scene if they all use one OBJ, rather then all of them adding their own copy of the same mesh.

 

[Pendraia]

Thanks for the explanation...but wouldn't distributing a pp2 with a new texture still impinge on the eula and copyright? Wouldn't you need to distribute mat files to avoid that? Maybe I'm missing something...still early morning here and I'm still waking up.

 

[seachnasaigh]

Thanks for the explanation...but wouldn't distributing a pp2 with a new texture still impinge on the eula and copyright? Wouldn't you need to distribute mat files to avoid that? Maybe I'm missing something...still early morning here and I'm still waking up.

No. With the geometry omitted, all your new re-textured PP2 file carries is your own material work, any translate/scale/rotate info, and any duplication/instancing/parenting you may have done. But you aren't redistributing the creator's model, nor are you redistributing his/her texture maps. Your PP2 references (calls for) the original OBJ, but your package does not supply that OBJ. You may even re-use some of the original maps, such as transparency or bump maps, but again your PP2 references those maps without supplying them. Your package will contain any new maps you have made and your PP2. The end user must have the original model/maps to be able to use your re-textured PP2.

 

[Pendraia]

Okay...colour me very confused then as I always thought you couldn't distribute them. I knew that you can re-use maps as long as you don't distribute them. Off to ponder this and think about it some more...

 

[seachnasaigh]

Okay...colour me very confused then as I always thought you couldn't distribute them. I knew that you can re-use maps as long as you don't distribute them. Off to ponder this and think about it some more...

Indeed, you are still confused. You can *reference* the original maps in your PP2, but you may *not* include them in your package.
For example, you make a spiffy new coat texture for Harry. You re-use the original transparency maps. Your package would contain your new color maps for the coat, but would not contain the transparency maps, nor the geometry. Your CR2 or MC6 *can* reference (call for, and use) the original maps and the original OBJ. The end user *must* have Harry to make use of your package.

 

[Pendraia]

I'm starting to think that some of my confusion is due to misunderstanding.

Where you are saying reference I said re-use meaning that your file would call on the image but you wouldn't distribute it as that is against copyright, but we both mean the same thing from what you said above. Just used different terminology. k

I'm still not sure I totally agree about redistributing pp2's though...

 

[seachnasaigh]

If the PP2 contains embedded geometry, you cannot redistribute a re-textured version; that's a major reason why many brokerages require the geometry to be extracted.
If the PP2 references an external OBJ, and your re-texture package does not supply the OBJ nor any of the texture maps, then your PP2 is OK.

 

[kobaltkween]

If a texture artist wanted to offer an improved texture set for Atlantis, they would have to supply dozens of MT5/MC6 files. But, if I extract the geometry so that the PP2s reference remotely stored OBJs, that texture artist can offer a single assembled PP2 file, without redistributing my meshes. Easier for the texture artist, and much easier for the end user. Atlantis will have extracted (remotely referenced) OBJs.

Do you really think it would be OK to put out a set without the separate materials? In my experience, you still have to offer the piecemeal options on materials and props. But maybe that's just my perception, and people don't really care about being able to mix and match.