I'm thinking of starting a CG blog/website...

[eclark1894]

Well, since you're going to be "talking" through your writing, I would go with the first one, CG Shop Talk. The others seem to lean more toward the "artwork", rather than the method(s) of how you accomplish it.

Actually, I do like CG Shop Talk myself.

 

[Miss B]

There ya go.

 

[eclark1894]

I was told that infinite and point lights were not the best to use in volumetric atmosphere renders. I put that in my tutorial as well, but now, I think I'm going to either change it or at the very least, add a caveat. That's why I've been experimenting a bit with what you can do. This is a Medieval Tavern render using volumetric atmospherics with point lights. Which are all over this tavern scene. There are two controls though were you adjust the atmospheric conditions, but one is for each individual light and one affects the whole scene. When you have THAT MANY LIGHTS in a scene, it's best to adjust the scene atmospherics and only adjust a few of the lights, as that where your attention will tend to focus.

 

[Gadget Girl]

I'm looking forward to this tutorial when you do get it done as this is one of the things I've never really figured out how to do at all. And yeah, I think CG Shop Talk sounds like a good name.

 

[Miss B]

I like the renders you've been post on this topic Earl, and I too look forward to the tutorial.

 

[eclark1894]

I'm looking forward to this tutorial when you do get it done as this is one of the things I've never really figured out how to do at all. And yeah, I think CG Shop Talk sounds like a good name.

It's all fairly simple, once you learn how GG. Of course, the more complex the scene, the more complex the setup. I'm working on the light set up portion of the tutorial now.

 

[Miss B]

Look forward to reading it. This is something I've not tried before, so should be interesting to see what can be accomplished.

 

[eclark1894]

Still playing around and experimenting. I have a confession to make. My tutorial is based off one that Charles Taylor, Nerd3d, did for SM back when Poser 9/ Poser Pro 2012 came out. That's how long Poser has had volumetric atmospherics. I don't know if SM has improved the shader for volumetrics or not, but some of the things I'm getting seems to fly in the face of points that Nerd suggested, such as infinite and point lights not being any good for the volumetric effect, and yet here I am using them to good effect, I feel. That's why I'm trying to emphasize that even if the rules say it can't be done, try it anyway. I'm not going to lie though, it takes a little tweaking and being able to render several times to get to a place I like and as I said before the more complex the scene, the more complex the setup. Adding V4 to this render alone took me most of the day, and I had to readjust the lights and atmospheric effects just because she was now in the scene.

 

[eclark1894]

Same scene without volumetrics.

 

[Miss B]

The volumetrics make a huge difference in setting the scene, that's for sure.

 

[eclark1894]

Also increases the render time by a factor of ... say 3. A 5 minute non- volumetric render would probably be anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes, depending of course, on on how many lights there are and how complicated the scene is. At least, that's been my experience so far. The empty scene with volumeterics rendered maybe about 1.5 times faster without V4 in it.

 

[Glitterati3D]

I believe volumetrics have been in Poser for a lot longer than P9. These volumetric lights by SaintFox says all the way back to Poser 5 and the promos for that package were done with Poser 7.

Fiat Lux Lights OR Cameras SaintFox

 

[eclark1894]

I believe volumetrics have been in Poser for a lot longer than P9. These volumetric lights by SaintFox says all the way back to Poser 5 and the promos for that package were done with Poser 7.

Fiat Lux Lights OR Cameras SaintFox

You're probably right, Traci. I can go back to at least Poser 7 and check.

 

[kobaltkween]

Still playing around and experimenting. I have a confession to make. My tutorial is based off one that Charles Taylor, Nerd3d, did for SM back when Poser 9/ Poser Pro 2012 came out. That's how long Poser has had volumetric atmospherics. I don't know if SM has improved the shader for volumetrics or not, but some of the things I'm getting seems to fly in the face of points that Nerd suggested, such as infinite and point lights not being any good for the volumetric effect, and yet here I am using them to good effect, I feel. That's why I'm trying to emphasize that even if the rules say it can't be done, try it anyway. I'm not going to lie though, it takes a little tweaking and being able to render several times to get to a place I like and as I said before the more complex the scene, the more complex the setup. Adding V4 to this render alone took me most of the day, and I had to readjust the lights and atmospheric effects just because she was now in the scene.

In my experience, most really technical advice about Poser needs caveats. Or even runs counter to my personal experience. I stopped watching the Renderosity series because everything involved with shading and lighting had me wanting to post corrections (that's just where I know the most). For instance, they said that using normal maps were better than using bump maps not because of the additional information, but because bump maps work differently and slow down the render. I'm kind of excessive in my test rendering and always have been, but I've literally never seen any of the issues he cited. And I've been using Poser since Poser 4 Pro Pack.

Now maybe the guy doing the tutorials just perfers normal maps, hates bump maps, and was just looking for an excuse to tell people to use normal maps. But, IMHO, it's more likely that he's using them in some particular way that hasn't occurred to me in more than a decade of testing obsessively, and is getting different results.

I think the most you can be is honest about your results and open about your settings and environment. Even if they're different from what anyone or even everyone else says. Because only a fraction of the community even comes to the forums, and a smaller fraction posts. There's a larger community out there that we can't know anything about. And they might have experiences more like yours.

Oh, and yeah, Atmosphere has been around since at least P5, if not P4. I would hope that the engine has changed since then, but atmospherics in Poser are _really_ old. OK! Found a CP product talking about how in P4 you had to fake them, but in P5 you had actual atmosphere. So definitely a P5 thing.

 

[Glitterati3D]

kobaltkween, I quit watching them too, when the instructor talked about something (I don't even remember what now) and said "I don't even know why that's here, just ignore it."

I think that's what happens when you ask a Carrara user to create Poser tutorials. It was a yeoman's effort, but a pretty serious fail.

 

[Gadget Girl]

I'm not going to lie though, it takes a little tweaking and being able to render several times to get to a place I like and as I said before the more complex the scene, the more complex the setup.

Well, I think that goes for almost everything in 3D. I'm working on some promo images right now for a dynamic outfit, and I'm constantly tweaking little things in the in-between poses to get a look I like. You can just pose a figure and run a simulation, but it's rarely as nice looking as if you take the time to make little adjustments and corrections. I'd much rather see a tutorial that acknowledges that, than one that implies if you just click a button you'll get a perfect render.

 

[eclark1894]

As usual, I've gotten a tad sidetracked. I'm even about to get sidetracked from my sidetrack.
Before I do though, while I haven't quite finished writing the tutorial yet. I am almost done. Just the same, I did discover that Poser has a Create Atmosphere Wacro. I swear, I never noticed it before. Thing is, I added one node to the atmosphere node, played with the lights a bit and I think I've gotten just as good or even better results. Of course that could just be my pride... or conceit.
Anyway, here's a quick render of the Create Atmosphere wacro from Poser Pro 2014.

 

[Miss B]

I don't think that's bad at all Earl, and I hardly ever look at all the buttons in the Material room, so I never noticed it either until now.

 

[kobaltkween]

As usual, I've gotten a tad sidetracked. I'm even about to get sidetracked from my sidetrack.
Before I do though, while I haven't quite finished writing the tutorial yet. I am almost done. Just the same, I did discover that Poser has a Create Atmosphere Wacro. I swear, I never noticed it before. Thing is, I added one node to the atmosphere node, played with the lights a bit and I think I've gotten just as good or even better results. Of course that could just be my pride... or conceit.
Anyway, here's a quick render of the Create Atmosphere wacro from Poser Pro 2014.

I noticed it a long time ago. I just didn't use it because it didn't go beyond the absolute basics. It's not your pride. It's more that it's there to simplify turning on something in one click that should work like that and doesn't. Usability wise, it probably would have been better to just keep all atmosphere options in the Atmosphere settings, and have an "Exclude from atmosphere" toggle on the lights that was off by default. Anyway, yeah, you've done more with Poser's atmosphere, to more interesting and realistic effects. That's just true, not conceit.

kobaltkween, I quit watching them too, when the instructor talked about something (I don't even remember what now) and said "I don't even know why that's here, just ignore it."

I think that's what happens when you ask a Carrara user to create Poser tutorials. It was a yeoman's effort, but a pretty serious fail.

Oh, wait. I wasn't trying to say the videos weren't useful at all. Or even criticize them. They get lots of views, and lots of positive feedback. I totally understand that there's a whole bunch of people who don't have the same experience I do when it comes to Poser or its tutorials. I don't fault the author because he uses Poser very differently than I have (and do). I'll admit that I feel like some of the information he presents is biased, but I also know that my feelings stem from my own biases and experiences.

I think most aspects of Poser, and software in general, ask for both confidence in your own knowledge and experience and respect for others' experience and knowledge. Which isn't easy to balance.

 

[eclark1894]

I noticed it a long time ago. I just didn't use it because it didn't go beyond the absolute basics. It's not your pride. It's more that it's there to simplify turning on something in one click that should work like that and doesn't. Usability wise, it probably would have been better to just keep all atmosphere options in the Atmosphere settings, and have an "Exclude from atmosphere" toggle on the lights that was off by default. Anyway, yeah, you've done more with Poser's atmosphere, to more interesting and realistic effects. That's just true, not conceit.

Aww, thanks KK. Actually, I was almost finished, but I decided to check something else out really quick. God rays.