Dynamic Clothing is the future?

[eclark1894]

Yeah, I know it's controversial, but hear me out here. We Poser users are in a bit of a bind. WE don't have a "Genesis" to rally behind. No "one figure to rule them all", to steal a popular meme, so what do we do? Well, to make matters worse, or better, depending on your POV, we have new figures currently in development to further divide our loyalties. What's a Poser user to do? What's a Poser vendor to support? How about... ALL OF THEM? I'm going to shock you now. Well, it probably would if I hadn't already put the subject in the title of the thread, but yeah, how about using more dynamic clothing? There are benefits of course. Dynamic clothing can be scaled larger or smaller to fit most figures with little to know problem, no matter what figure the clothes were originally made for. Case in point, a dynamic shirt I originally made to fit Miki4 was scaled up by a user and used on V4. Miki 4 does NOT share V4's statuesque physique. A LBD I originally made for Roxie and is currently for sale now at CP is designed to fit up to six different figures. and with a little scaling could be made to fit Pauline, and Maisie.
Now, there will still be need for conforming clothing, especially for things like spacesuits and armor or clothes that are more rigid by nature. Other benefits would include a shorter development time, and vendors won't have to decide what figure to support at the expense of others. There's also the benefit of more realistic renders. Clothes that bend and drape naturally add to the realism. So what's your view?

 

[phdubrov]

Not in the current state of the ClothRoom. We need something like MD engine to tailor outfits to figures. Or you will need adjust not only shape, but cloth properties too for all figures and all not-average shapes. (Poser scaled 150% garment will not behave like garment 150% bigger generated in MD. Different polygons density.)

Theoretically yes, dynamic and hybrid dynamic/self-constrained clothes are the future. It was my hope on Bullet, but...

 

[Bonnie2001]

Nice dream Earl. You had my hopes up there for a few seconds.

 

[eclark1894]

Not in the current state of the ClothRoom. We need something like MD engine to tailor outfits to figures. Or you will need adjust not only shape, but cloth properties too for all figures and all not-average shapes. (Poser scaled 150% garment will not behave like garment 150% bigger generated in MD. Different polygons density.)

If you don't think scaling's a viable option, what about using the fitting Room first to adjust the size and shape first?

 

[Rokket]

It's been my experience, just from reading in the various forums, that most people shy away from dynamic cloth and the cloth room.

Personally, I gravitated toward it, but I find more and more that I am not the standard Poser user.

 

[eclark1894]

It's been my experience, just from reading in the various forums, that most people shy away from dynamic cloth and the cloth room.

Personally, I gravitated toward it, but I find more and more that I am not the standard Poser user.

I think the cape from your Superman outfit would benefit from a trip to the Cloth Room, Rokket. In fact, I would prefer to buy an outfit like that ONLY if it came with a dynamic cape.

 

[phdubrov]

Problems are not in the scaling or fitting, problems are
a. after scaling you need adjust cloth properties, or your silk can turn to boot's leather or vice versa
b. fitting is even worse, it can destroy more or less constant density of polygons that are needed for good cloth simulation
Example: shirt for the girls with A and D cups, all other dimesions are the same. After adjusting with fitting morphs we can end with different polygons density in the chest area, more, it will be different from the other parts of garment -> possible irregularities in the simulation. And so on...
It's not something unsolvable, but modification of the ClothRoom is needed.

 

[eclark1894]

Problems are not in the scaling or fitting, problems are
a. after scaling you need adjust cloth properties, or your silk can turn to boot's leather or vice versa
b. fitting is even worse, it can destroy more or less constant density of polygons that are needed for good cloth simulation
Example: shirt for the girls with A and D cups, all other dimesions are the same. After adjusting with fitting morphs we can end with different polygons density in the chest area, more, it will be different from the other parts of garment -> possible irregularities in the simulation. And so on...
It's not something unsolvable, but modification of the ClothRoom is needed.

I'm not exactly sure what your objections are. What is it you want the Cloth Room to be able to do that it doesn't do now?

 

[Miss B]

It's been my experience, just from reading in the various forums, that most people shy away from dynamic cloth and the cloth room.

I certainly did for a long time, and then I beta tested the first set Satira created for Nouvelle Aube, and I was hooked.

Granted there's no standard settings you can use on every piece of dynamic cloth, but practice makes perfect, and I'm getting more comfortable in the Cloth Room.

 

[phdubrov]

I'm not exactly sure what your objections are. What is it you want the Cloth Room to be able to do that it doesn't do now?

Work with absolute, not relative to mesh density properties. So we have more or less same results if mesh density vary, say, 50-150%, better 400% (subdivision). Now it's less. Probably, spring generation algorithm should be changed for this.

Next we need elastics. No more stretch only.

Better have modern cloth algorithm, like current Blender proposal.

 

[Rokket]

@eclark1894 I was thinking of releasing the whole thing as a dynamic outfit. I am having such a hard time of rigging the thing for M4 that I put it aside and haven't touched it in more than a month.

So would anyone want it if it was all dynamic? Keep in mind, it's poly heavy, especially the main suit.

 

[Rokket]

I certainly did for a long time, and then I beta tested the first set Satira created for Nouvelle Aube, and I was hooked.

Granted there's no standard settings you can use on every piece of dynamic cloth, but practice makes perfect, and I'm getting more comfortable in the Cloth Room.

I have a lot of stuff I want to release, but everyone wanted it rigged to conform, which made me hold off. I hate doing all the adjustments after I rig it with the donor rig. I would have about 20 things uploaded already if I just made them dynamic. But I noticed that I get about 1/10 of the downloads of dynamic stuff vs what I've rigged in the past.

 

[eclark1894]

Like you said, the Cloth Room intimidates people. It shouldn't though.
The boots are rigged, right?

 

[Miss B]

I think, Rokket, it depends on the clothing. As Earl mentioned, a cape is perfect for dynamic cloth, but that doesn't mean the whole outfit needs to be dynamic, especially something that's pretty tight fitting to the characters body.

I suspect that's the reason a lot of folks prefer conforming clothing.

 

[Glitterati3D]

It might be, but first we have to somehow convince users not to be terrified of the cloth room.

Since every conversation about dynamic clothing ends up being a litany about what's wrong with the cloth room, I suspect we're shooting ourselves in the foot trying to attain that.

 

[Mythocentric]

I have no qualms about using dynamic clothing. In fact, I prefer it and tend to think twice before buying conforming clothing nowadays. Advantages are, of course, its ability to adapt to a range of figures. For instance, I often use V4 dynamics for Dawn and vice-versa with little or no problem, or when using dynamic clothing on morphed figures simply by applying the morphs to the figure on the same frame as the pose. A current example would be 'THE VAMP' using Satira's E'enwear for Itarelle on Nouvelle Aube (a much smaller figure than Dawn) simply by fitting the dress to Dawn and allowing the Cloth Room to deal with the scaling. In fact, the only problem I had in that image was having to manually scale and fit the shoes to Nouvelle Aube! The most extreme use I can think of was using Lully's Mister Darcy outfit for Dusk to dress Ruckus and that went without a hitch. There are some good signs of progress in dynamic clothing from vendors like Frequency who often include adjustment morphs to make fitting to other figures easier. A wider range and use of dynamics (for both clothing and hair) would definitely get my vote! To be honest, I don't see why some folk have such problems with the Cloth Room. I learned to use it simply by sitting down and playing with it and then thinking about my mistakes until I got it right. There are also a lot of easy tutorials out there as well, many of them supplied by the vendors with their products. I suspect to some degree it may come down to a fear of difference, i.e. I haven't used it before so I'm not going to like it. That's a pity because the Cloth Room as it stands has a lot going for it. All it takes is a little patience

 

[eclark1894]

It's funny, before doing this directory, I hardly ever saw any dynamic clothing. Now, I'm practically tripping over the stuff.

 

[Mythocentric]

That's true! Not really all that long ago dynamic clothing was like horse feathers, but there has been a swing in its favour in recent years as vendors come to appreciate it's advantages both for themselves and their customers. The only thing holding it back now is the customers themselves. Once they get past their fears of the Cloth Room and start ignoring the doomsayers telling them that the Cloth Room is so full of faults it's practically unusable I'm pretty certain that dynamic clothing will become the standard. Yes! There is, and always will be a place for conforming clothing but I suspect that will become a smaller market as customers see the advantage of greater realism that dynamics can produce!

 

[Dakorillon (IMArts)]

I have a lot of problems with the cloth room, but I'm learning. Coming from the place of NO knowlegde of Poser before, to trying to follow tutorials and do stuff myself, I can say that it is intimidating. Lots of things just don't have labels that are understandable from a lay-person standpoint. Most things I still have NO clue as to what they actually do, I just follow the step-by step I was given. So, I know I'm not using it to max. But, I do love the way things look when it works!

 

[Miss B]

Keep playing with it Dak, and it will start to feel like second nature. The only thing I still think about, is what type of cloth is it supposed to be, since silk will drape very easily, but a knit or velvet will need different settings because those fabrics are heavier.