Poser on borrowed time?

[quietrob]

One of my friends recently upgraded to PP11 for $49.00 during a sale.

That's when I upgraded, it was too just too great a deal to pass up considering the original price when it came out. When you consider the extra figures as models and the improved PRO features it practically forced me to get it.

 

[eclark1894]

We really need a heavy dose of 'too nice' in the US! That and perhaps a few sessions of Kumbaya around a campfire :wink: Wouldn't hurt either if every elected official had the curse of pinocchio. Wouldn't that be ever so cool!


'Daz did this, SM did this and all the conspiracy theories' do get rather boring, don't they? As well as frustrating. I remember things differently from how others remember them. I have my own belief as to who is the villain in the story ... and nothing anyone says is going to change my mind.

What we believe is all heavily influenced by our set of filters, as well as experiences with both companies. Thing is ... most of what we believe ... not just about that whole debacle, but DS, Poser, Genesis, HiveWire figures ... etc., etc., etc., comes from what someone else (who often has no direct experience or accurate knowledge) presented as fact. I mean ... how many Poser and DS users absolutely believe the HiveWire figures are garbage?!? Usually based on statements presented as fact by people who have NEVER, EVER tried the HiveWire figures. Or who tried them once the first month, and decided they were garbage because they didn't have the bazillion morphs, clothing, characters, whatever ... they had accumulated over 5 years with V4. Or because Dawn was missing that little bit between her legs. Not that V4's little bit of geometry down there was all that impressive to begin with.

To be fair, I didn't adopt Dawn right away, but primarily because I was supporting Roxie at the time. Had nothing to do with her geometry or how many morphs she had. I've only made about four or five things for Dawn since, one or two released as freebies, the rest not released at all. Clothes have become the bane of my Poser experience, and not just for Dawn. I've got a perfectly good outfit for Pauline sitting in Blender right now. The only reason I haven't rigged it is because I can't texture worth a damn! Yeah, I can create a denim texture, but it's adding things like seams. God I hate it. Texturing sucks!

 

[NG Artplay]

Smith Micro NEEDS a really fantastic character duo and forums for Poser....period. If they would create a super quality man and woman for use in Poser with weight mapping and a forum to discuss this in they would rock. As it is, Pauline was a disappointment for me. Come on SM, let's get with the 21st century. Forums build loyalty, good, quality figures build a customer base. Let's not lose Poser to bad decision making. Let Poser grow. It's a great program.

 

[Rae134]

Ummm they do have a forum? (under "Support" on the main page in "Graphics Forum" then go to "Poser")

hope its ok to link Poser

I don't know about Pauline as I've never loaded her (actually, I've never played with anything from SM except a couple of shaders)

 

[quietrob]

Smith Micro NEEDS a really fantastic character duo and forums for Poser....period. If they would create a super quality man and woman for use in Poser with weight mapping and a forum to discuss this in they would rock. As it is, Pauline was a disappointment for me. Come on SM, let's get with the 21st century. Forums build loyalty, good, quality figures build a customer base. Let's not lose Poser to bad decision making. Let Poser grow. It's a great program.

There have been a few but none had the backing of v4 until now. Over at Rendo, they are (were) having a Dawn and Dusk sale. Support is key. A free clothing pack would be nice for Paul and Pauline and it might just inspire others to make the skimpy outfits and not so skimpy but essential outfits for both. After almost 10 years of buying stuff for V4, no one wants to see their model's wardrobe suddenly become useless. I don't know what incentives the Genesis clothing creators get but I have to say it's an avalanche compared to the brand new Maise.

I do like toon figures such Maise, Peterbilt and 3DU Sadie and still do my best to support the other figures such as Dawn. I want that competition that brings about choice and lower prices.

 

[Glitterati3D]

Smith Micro NEEDS a really fantastic character duo and forums for Poser....period. If they would create a super quality man and woman for use in Poser with weight mapping and a forum to discuss this in they would rock. As it is, Pauline was a disappointment for me. Come on SM, let's get with the 21st century. Forums build loyalty, good, quality figures build a customer base. Let's not lose Poser to bad decision making. Let Poser grow. It's a great program.

I agree about the forums and they do have Poser forums. Very active ones, in fact.

But figures? No, I think SM should get out of the figure business entirely. They obviously don't do them well. Leave figure development to 3rd parties.

In fact, they should remove the content they distribute with Poser older than Poser 6 at a minimum. No one even touches that stuff. And they force us to download gigs of data with every upgrade that we've already installed and deleted just to get the new stuff.

 

[McGyver]

Why would you put the forums under support?
Okay.. bad question...
I get the relationship, but who would notice that unless they had a support issue...?
Generally, under support you find "Contact Us" and an email address that you can write to that nobody ever emails back from.
Usually it's : Shop • Forums • FAQs • Used Furniture • Software • Resources
Or something like that.
Well, okay my bad...
I'll check it out...
To think I've never noticed it in all these years...

 

[Ken Gilliland]

@Ken Gilliland again. Have fun in MY neck of the woods, Ken! Don't be mad at the cost of parking. 20 bucks is considered cheap in downtown LA. I paid twice that much for parking when I attended the Anime Expo.

I won't be paying for parking since I'll probably hop on the Red Line at the North Hollywood Station and take it to the Convention Center. I'm don't mind paying for the parking but the traffic I'm more than happy to miss. And yes, I'm a local, too.

 

[Semicharm]

Smith Micro NEEDS a really fantastic character duo and forums for Poser....period. If they would create a super quality man and woman for use in Poser with weight mapping and a forum to discuss this in they would rock. As it is, Pauline was a disappointment for me. Come on SM, let's get with the 21st century. Forums build loyalty, good, quality figures build a customer base. Let's not lose Poser to bad decision making. Let Poser grow. It's a great program.

I agree about the forums and they do have Poser forums. Very active ones, in fact.

But figures? No, I think SM should get out of the figure business entirely. They obviously don't do them well. Leave figure development to 3rd parties.

In fact, they should remove the content they distribute with Poser older than Poser 6 at a minimum. No one even touches that stuff. And they force us to download gigs of data with every upgrade that we've already installed and deleted just to get the new stuff.

I get that they bundle new models with every version to "showcase" the latest features. However, the quality doesn't tend to showcase the features or app very well. It sort of feels like id's games back in the day. Their 1st party games were mostly playable feature length tech demos to sell game engines to 3rd party devs rather than quality AAA tiles in their own right.

I believe SM gives select artists and users early access to Poser. They need to tag some of them to enter the ring and create the bundled figures. Something that really makes people think, "Damn! I've got to get my hands on that!" Sure, it takes nerves and patience to make a usable model during development with half-banked features and a changing toolset, but it needs to be done.

 

[eclark1894]

I get that they bundle new models with every version to "showcase" the latest features. However, the quality doesn't tend to showcase the features or app very well. It sort of feels like id's games back in the day. Their 1st party games were mostly playable feature length tech demos to sell game engines to 3rd party devs rather than quality AAA tiles in their own right.

I believe SM gives select artists and users early access to Poser. They need to tag some of them to enter the ring and create the bundled figures. Something that really makes people think, "Damn! I've got to get my hands on that!" Sure, it takes nerves and patience to make a usable model during development with half-banked features and a changing toolset, but it needs to be done.

Again, in fairness to SM, Steve Cooper did ask at least one Poser Ambassador that I know of, if he would like to make a figure, and that Ambassador declined the invite. No, I won't tell you the name if you don't already know who it is.

 

[Hornet3d]

To be fair, I didn't adopt Dawn right away, but primarily because I was supporting Roxie at the time. Had nothing to do with her geometry or how many morphs she had. I've only made about four or five things for Dawn since, one or two released as freebies, the rest not released at all. Clothes have become the bane of my Poser experience, and not just for Dawn. I've got a perfectly good outfit for Pauline sitting in Blender right now. The only reason I haven't rigged it is because I can't texture worth a damn! Yeah, I can create a denim texture, but it's adding things like seams. God I hate it. Texturing sucks!

I tried Dawn when she was first released but didn't adopt her, by the time of the launch of Dawn SE it was a very different story and I adopted her straight away. I hope that the sales at Rendo persuade others to give the present version a try, I know at least some will have a pleasant surprise.

As to your Pauline outfit, forget the texture and sell it without any textures, but you must remember to double the price first and sell it with and Extended License, it is all the rage elsewhere.

 

[McGyver]

Ummm they do have a forum? (under "Support" on the main page in "Graphics Forum" then go to "Poser")

hope its ok to link Poser

I don't know about Pauline as I've never loaded her (actually, I've never played with anything from SM except a couple of shaders)

Thanks for the link!

I know that years ago I looked around at SM to see if there was a Poser forum and did not find an obvious one...
And now and again I'd check and see if they maybe added one, since I didn't know there was one, which I was still failing to find.
I guess I now see what I did all those times...

Warning:
The following is "Too Long Didn't Read" grade material, or more appropriately "Too Long Don't Bother To Read".
So just skip it as there is no real information to be gleaned other than perhaps understanding how one little omission can lead to years of frustration.

First, I used Rae134's link to find the forums and thank you...
I wish I'd have found this years ago.
There really was a forum (I didn't doubt Rae134, I just wanted to see where it was).
Then I thought... Why the hell in all the years have I not found this forum.
Seriously, I've had a bunch of problems that my stupid tiny brain had to figure out on its own over the years.

I so I looked it up on my own again and I ended up on their corporate page...
Not necessarily a home page, because I seem to only get that page with a specific set of search words... It's more like for investors, prospective employees or press announcements...
So then I check Content Paradise to see if there is a way to find the forums there...
No.
Why?
Who knows?

So I went back to the link and worked backwards.

So now I figured out why I missed this.

Most stores have a link to their forums... My understanding is CP is SM's Poser content store... Right?
But, they only have forum link at their consumer graphics area.

What if you purchase Poser from Amazon, Purplus or Newegg or some other authorized reseller?
Only with my recent purchase of P11 pro, did I ever actually purchase Poser from SM.
I only buy the physical disc, not download.
The first one I bought was in an actual brick and mortar MicroCenter store.
After that, physical discs from authorized online resellers.
The entire time I've only really visted the consumer graphics section for downloading service releases.
Plus, since I usually can't afford to buy Poser pro new, with its $300-$400 price tag, I usually buy it from a vendor well after a new version is into the middle of its lifespan and I really have little reason to stick around for anything other then my service update and be gone...

My point is, unless you start exploring... Some people will not find their forums.
And my guess is some don't... For ten or twelve years, on various forums, I've lamented there not being any official Poser forums at SM or CP and many times people have replied that they wished that they had one too...
Yet not once did anyone point out there was one I was missing.

I'm guessing this is what happens...

Some people are thrifty, like to have a physical old fashioned plastic disc with their program on it and are not first adopters who purchase that disc directly from Smith Microsystems

Instead they wait for a sale when the price comes down, and buy it from Purplus, Amazon or a reputable reseller...
You get your disc... Do you go exploring?
No, you register it and want to render and have fun or get down to work...
When you need content... Well, if you are a noob, you probably go right to Content Paradise, then DAZ, Renderosity, Hivewire or other stores...
If you go to other stores you see all have links to their forums... Yet (unless I'm seriously missing something) Content Paradise has none...
You already bought Poser, why would you be going back to their Poser section, when content is what you now need?

My point?

Why is there no forum link at CP?

Ugh!

I haven't registered there yet, I've only scanned over it... I think it could use topics within the Poser Forums, but whatever.
It seems to be alive, but judging from the thread dates, it's only slightly more active then most Poser forums elsewhere, but it seems like this is where a lot of the pros hang out.

Still... It's surprising because once I heard it existed, I immediately pictured something more like DAZ or Hivewire's forums.
It kinda seems a little afterthoughtish... But at least it's there.

 

[Glitterati3D]

Well, McGyver, don't beat yourself up too badly. Poser didn't set up the forums until RDNA was sold off to DAZ. Prior to that the official Poser forums were at RDNA.

So, no, you didn't go years without noticing........just a couple years is all. I think it's just been about a year now that these forums opened at SM.

 

[Deecey]

Very cool, Ken! I hope you have a great time showing off your animals, Poser and Hivewire!

I am very encouraged by everything I hear coming from SM at this point. Yes, we miss Chuck and Teyon and Deecey, and all the rest. If you run into any of them, please ask them to stop in and let us know they're OK.

Aw how sweet. Just popping in to let you know I'm OK.

This thread is a hard read. Other threads at the SM forum are even harder and sometimes even hurtful. I've been purposely not commenting publicly about this whole mess for reasons that I hope are understandable. Still trying to find out which direction my ship will be sailing at this point. And I can't even begin to express how much I miss all my SM buds.

I will say I share the same concerns as everyone else. Beyond that, I try to remain optimistic, but it's been a rough ride. I have 8 years of content creation practices to catch up on, so eh, let's go with that. I've been resisting DS so far (ack that interface!), but will confess that I'm forcing myself to at least open it once in a while. ;-)

Teyon is working for a game developer and is very happy. Chuck and I recently released Maisie, a toon figure for Poser 11 at Renderosity. We considered releasing it here also, but noticed that HW already has a very nice toon figure here already!

Change is always certain. Rolling with it isn't always easy, but you roll as best you can.

Hugs everyone.

 

[Glitterati3D]

Aw how sweet. Just popping in to let you know I'm OK.

This thread is a hard read. Other threads at the SM forum are even harder and sometimes even hurtful. I've been purposely not commenting publicly about this whole mess for reasons that I hope are understandable. Still trying to find out which direction my ship will be sailing at this point. And I can't even begin to express how much I miss all my SM buds.

I will say I share the same concerns as everyone else. Beyond that, I try to remain optimistic, but it's been a rough ride. I have 8 years of content creation practices to catch up on, so eh, let's go with that. I've been resisting DS so far (ack that interface!), but will confess that I'm forcing myself to at least open it once in a while. ;-)

Teyon is working for a game developer and is very happy. Chuck and I recently released Maisie, a toon figure for Poser 11 at Renderosity. We considered releasing it here also, but noticed that HW already has a very nice toon figure here already!

Change is always certain. Rolling with it isn't always easy, but you roll as best you can.

Hugs everyone.

It's great to hear from you, Deecey! I've seen your stuff at Rendo and Maise is looking really good. If I did toons at all, I would break my Rendo embargo to grab her up, but I just don't do enough toon work to justify it.

Please know we're pulling for all you guys, you are our Poser family. Drop in once in a while to let us know how you are.

 

[Deecey]

Yeah it's the "Poser family" part of this all that makes it so hard. Sigh.

 

[eclark1894]

Yeah it's the "Poser family" part of this all that makes it so hard. Sigh.

Hi, Deecy! I know I've been very vocal about Poser lately, but seriously I hope I haven't said anything offensive or hurtful to or about you.

 

[StudioMartillo]

Re the Smith Micro/Content Paradise connection: I've been using Poser since version 6. If I remember correctly even back then the Poser App would try to load CP into the Library via Internet. I don't allow any internet connection to my workstation, ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!
I have other production tools than 3D software, music apps including Sonar and Cubase and HALion. With those there are also huge libraries of content. Of course things are backed up but any loss can be catastrophic. Connecting to the internet can be very hazardous as has been widely demonstrated. So it's totally out of the question.
Now, because of the impression I got of Poser trying to shove that garbage down my throat I have totally rejected it. I WILL NOT EVER EVEN LOOK AT IT!!!!!! And since other artist's opinions of it have done nothing positive for it, my mind won't change.
Anyway, it seems to me that it really isn't the same company as whatever companies have owned Poser. Is that true?

 

[eclark1894]

Re the Smith Micro/Content Paradise connection: I've been using Poser since version 6. If I remember correctly even back then the Poser App would try to load CP into the Library via Internet. I don't allow any internet connection to my workstation, ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!
I have other production tools than 3D software, music apps including Sonar and Cubase and HALion. With those there are also huge libraries of content. Of course things are backed up but any loss can be catastrophic. Connecting to the internet can be very hazardous as has been widely demonstrated. So it's totally out of the question.
Now, because of the impression I got of Poser trying to shove that garbage down my throat I have totally rejected it. I WILL NOT EVER EVEN LOOK AT IT!!!!!! And since other artist's opinions of it have done nothing positive for it, my mind won't change.
Anyway, it seems to me that it really isn't the same company as whatever companies have owned Poser. Is that true?

There have been 4 or 5 owners of Poser. SM is the current owner. They bought it from E-Frontier right around the time Poser 6 came out.

 

[StudioMartillo]

There have been 4 or 5 owners of Poser. SM is the current owner. They bought it from E-Frontier right around the time Poser 6 came out.

This I know. My question is whether Content Paradise is also owned (currently) by Smith Micro. Because when Poser was owned by E-Frontier it looked like Content Paradise was a separate company. Poser-SM / Content Paradise, two separate companies: TRUE or FALSE?