• Welcome to the Community Forums at HiveWire 3D! Please note that the user name you choose for our forum will be displayed to the public. Our store was closed as January 4, 2021. You can find HiveWire 3D and Lisa's Botanicals products, as well as many of our Contributing Artists, at Renderosity. This thread lists where many are now selling their products. Renderosity is generously putting products which were purchased at HiveWire 3D and are now sold at their store into customer accounts by gifting them. This is not an overnight process so please be patient, if you have already emailed them about this. If you have NOT emailed them, please see the 2nd post in this thread for instructions on what you need to do

Marvelous Designer 7 is out and I'm interested, I think

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
So Marvelous Designer is officially out. The tool set is just too tempting I think but the licensing is a bit confusing to me. I did ask on a threat on Fb but then I had another question and never got the answer..... I ate when that happens! :p So according to the rules for using MD under an Independent license I'm allowed to sell as an individual but then if I'm going through a brokerage like Hivewire does that break the rule or no?
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
You could try PM'ing FVerbaas, as he's a registered member here, and I know from his many MD posts on the SM Poser forum, as well as Renderosity, he would be quite familiar with the licensing issues.
 
i have md and wondered the same and i asked thm this question
i asked this question
can i seel the garment i make with the personal advanced licence

this was there reply

Please note that we do allow the Personal version for self use such as personal project and freelancer.

The Enterprise product is for those registered as a proper business and studios only.

Therefore, in your case, as long as you are not registered as a business or associated with a company,

you can still use the personal version to sell your works such as in DAZ web-store.
 

Dan30

Adventurous
@RAMWolff I bought the 6.5 version perpetual licence not so long ago and like FairyFantastic says, you can use it and sell stuff made with the program as a freelancer without a problem. I also checked. I think I am going to get the upgrade to version 7 as it looks like the newly introduced features are very useful in the creation of garments.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
$50/per month, $300/per year or $490 one time fee. None of which can fit in my pocketbook. ;)

I did play with the 30-day free trial of version 3 before it came out, and wasn't that thrilled with it, but now they have options to convert Tris to Quads, which I had to do in Blender back with Version 3, and supposedly even more nice features.

Maybe if I had been more comfortable with it, I'd like it better, but I never was able to get things, especially long dresses, to fit quite the way I wanted, so if I have to bring the mesh into Blender or Silo to tweak, then I might as well create them in Blender or Silo.
 

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
Convert tris to quads didn't work all that well for me. I'd end up having to set the mesh to a very, very low setting and then take it into Silo to clean up the mesh. Ultimately, it was just easier to create in Silo and run it through the Poser cloth room to get a more natural look. So even though I purchased the license for MD4, I rarely ever use it.

I also had nothing but problems with the change in how you pin and clear pins in MD4 compared to MD2.

MD's pricing is always difficult to understand. This is the first I've heard that the Personal license will allow you to sell the clothing made with MD. My upgrade cost is $196.00. So, I probably will check into the features and consider upgrading.
 

kobaltkween

Brilliant
Contributing Artist
i have md and wondered the same and i asked thm this question
i asked this question
can i seel the garment i make with the personal advanced licence

this was there reply

Please note that we do allow the Personal version for self use such as personal project and freelancer.

The Enterprise product is for those registered as a proper business and studios only.

Therefore, in your case, as long as you are not registered as a business or associated with a company,

you can still use the personal version to sell your works such as in DAZ web-store.
That's very interesting, because I asked a similar question (only in a more formal manner, thanking them for their time) and got back a very hostile response. They said, "Don't you dare try to violate our license." That's all. No elaboration, no clarification, just a detailed warning not to f* with them. Nice tool, but I won't ever deal with that company. And I got the impression, since I asked about the exact use case of selling clothes made with a personal license in a brokerage, that this meant it was _not_ allowed with a personal license. So you might want to double check on that and get something formal in writing. Something that's legally binding.
 

Dan30

Adventurous
This is a quote from their FAQ:
"
  • What is the difference between Personal and Enterprise License?

    There is no difference between Personal and Enterprise License other than it is for personal use or use in companies. Like other software, we frequently check the use of Personal License in companies, which will be in breach of the License Agreement. If you are a freelancer, you are eligible for the use of Personal License, however if you are to continue the use of Marvelous Designer in Enterprise conditions, you will have to purchase an Enterprise License. "
 

Dan30

Adventurous
I don't think that in their opinion, a freelancer work means you use their program for your own personal pleasure...
 

Dan30

Adventurous
Additionally:
Rights Granted.
For CLO Virtual Media made available to you (regardless of whether such media was purchased for a fee or otherwise), CLO grants to you a non-exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right and license to copy, distribute, reproduce, adapt, publicly display, publicly perform, digitally perform, transmit, broadcast, telecast, advertise, create derivative works, and market CLO Virtual Media within Work Product in the uses authorized in this Agreement.

Sharing CLO Virtual Media with third parties is only permitted as follows:

  1. In the development of Work Product owned by you, if you are working in collaboration with third parties, and there is a need to share CLO Virtual Media for the development of your Work Product. A third party that receives CLO Virtual Media may only use CLO Virtual Media on your Work Product and for no other purpose.
  2. In the development of Work Product for a person or entity other than yourself (“ your Customer ”), if you are working as a contractor and need to share CLO Virtual Media with your Customer, or any third parties working with your Customer, sharing CLO Virtual Media is allowed, subject to the restriction that all parties may use CLO Virtual Media only for your Customer’s particular Work Product and for no other purpose. For all other use by any party, CLO Virtual Media must be purchased again from CLO (for a fee or otherwise) to create a new license agreement governing that use. I also remember watching tutorials regarding the making of clothing and garments for Daz and Poser using Marvelous Designer. I thing this makes matters clear regarding at least this type of usage.
 

kobaltkween

Brilliant
Contributing Artist
Right. But "freelancer" means "work for hire." It _does not _ mean, "independent business owner selling their product en masse." It's totally different, even to the point of licensing. When you are a freelancer, you sell your labor. Any items you make aren't your own copyright. The copyright belongs to whoever hired you (see "work for hire"). As a result, it would be really, really problematic for the MD company to go after those people, because they might not even be aware of how or what you use to make content for them. Frankly, you might be contracted out to a company that then sells your services to another company, that sells that work to a third. Trying to get beyond the freelancer, who's only making and selling one copy of any outfit, makes no sense. And since freelance modelers are usually brought in for a whole lot more than clothes, MD is unlikely to get a whole lot out of pushing for the price of two or three outfits out of a huge amount of character and prop design. It would just be problematic all around.

Now consider the case where the individual _business_ owner is selling outfits at a brokerage. The copyright belongs to the vendor, and _all_ of the money from their item probably comes from MD made stuff. That item isn't sold once, but a potentially enormous number of times. Maybe that one outfit will make tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars if sold at the right place and given the right promotion. There's no cap.

"In the development of Work Product for a person or entity other than yourself (“ your Customer ”), if you are working as a contractor and need to share CLO Virtual Media with your Customer, or any third parties working with your Customer, sharing CLO Virtual Media is allowed, subject to the restriction that all parties may use CLO Virtual Media only for your Customer’s particular Work Product and for no other purpose. For all other use by any party, CLO Virtual Media must be purchased again from CLO (for a fee or otherwise) to create a new license agreement governing that use."

Right. But when you sell from a brokerage, that is _not_ for a particular "Work Product." It is sold for an wide range of uses with an infinite number of projects. That's for renders in any number of video games. That's for renders for any number of prints and posters. That's for renders to make _any number_ of commercial products. And that's for _each of your customers_. I mean, look at Vicky. How many different products is she in? Even just per customer?

So really, that makes it clear that you _cannot_ sell an item, but can sell your labor. In short, work for hire good, selling a single item to infinite people for infinite uses each bad. The only reason I asked was knowing that people in this community who said they were doing exactly what this said was forbidden, and selling MD products to customers for multiple "Work Products."

In point of fact, selling 3d content rather than doing work for hire for a game or a movie or a magazine ad run is really niche and specific in the professional 3D world. While it almost never makes more than a pittance of money per item, it has the ideal potential to make any amount of money. It involves many, many copies, and now DAZ and Renderosity have gone the way of most 3D brokerages and started selling items as fully royalty free (what we call game licensing). I haven't seen too many companies address this issue specifically. MD has had a relationship with DAZ, so I figured they would have a policy.

And when I asked about that policy regarding the specific use of selling clothing at 3D brokerages like DAZ using the Personal License, quite explicitly, I was told in no uncertain terms that I would face legal repercussions if I violated their licensing. Which isn't directly a no, but sure points to it.

There's a reason that when Vue came out with their plant making app they decided to force anyone selling the plants individually to sell the full editable source version (royalty free licensing) on their site for only up to 50% more. Meanwhile, freelancers can use it in projects anyway they want. That makes it pretty damn worthless for individuals to do anything other than work for hire with their tool. Which means that people who need plants will probably never look at their tool and decide it's cheaper just to get a bunch of quickie made plants from some seller on TurboSquid. I wouldn't be surprised if the MD people had the same concern over a market glutted with basic clothes people could edit to fit multiple projects that might make their software unnecessary for average users.
 
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phdubrov

Noteworthy
Contributing Artist
IIRC they had very different license agreement before, with 3 modes instead of 2 - sell models only in MD store, sell models everywhere, enterprise (and sell models for games).
And it were in clear wording.
IIRC.

And current version is seems to be ... let's say strange. Just compare with DS or Poser license. Or almost any other software.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I think this all started when CLO took over Marvelous Designer, because I remember when you could only sell your models in the MD store. Of course, that was back in MD3 days.
 

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
Marvelous Designer was developed by CLO.

CLO3D was developed for the fashion industry and Marvelous Designer was developed for the entertainment industry.

Their licensing was always confusing. With MD2, the personal license was only for personal use, and you couldn't sell the clothing you created. But if you bought one of the other two licenses, you could sell your clothing at any store.

I don't believe initially you could even sell your clothing at the MD store with a Personal license, though they may have made an exception later.
 
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