Issues with sky dome lighting in PP11

[Darryl]

I'm having issues with lighting in PP11. Here I'm using one of Seachnasaigh's Construct textures for the sky dome. I render in Firefly with IDL turned on. If I render it, the light appears in the scene as it does in the Raytrace preview. The Preview window, however catches no light at all. there are no other lights turned on in the scene.

Is this normal? I don't remember this being an issue in 2014 though I hadn't used it much. I have the same issue with other skydomes.

 

[English Bob]

I find the same. When the lighting is set to produce a properly exposed render, the preview can be very dark. I often have to use a 'posing light' which isn't included in the render in order to see what I'm doing. Some scenes fare better than others, and I haven't got a feeling for what factors influence it yet.

 

[Hornet3d]

I works the same for me using EZdome and a sIBL, with some sIBLs I cannot even see the dome in the preview. I either add a specular only light or add a 'posing light' as English Bob does and just switch it off before I render, depends on the render as to which.

 

[seachnasaigh]

Hmmm, I don't know if that cluster of lightcasting nodes is effective in Firefly; it was intended for use in Superfly.

My workstations are busy testing new magical faerie stuff right now, so I can't check. See the simple color node with the grey color block? Adjust it to a dark grey, and see if the render brightens. In Superfly, light grey will give only gentle lightcasting, while dark grey will cast light strongly. Generally, something as expansive as a skydome only needs a little boost, whereas a small intense source (LED, candle flame, etc) will need a lot lot.
The idea is to get the amount of lightcasting which you would expect for the item's apparent brightness.

If changing the color block does not work in Firefly IDL, this certainly will work for P9/Pro2012+:

• Duplicate the construct (or other skydome)
• Omit all nodes except the image map, and plug that only into the alternate diffuse for the original dome. Plug it only into the ambient for the copy.
• Translate the copy down a bit, and scale down the X and Y a bit, so that you only see the surface of the copy from within the dome.
• Set the copy's properties to be not visible in camera, and to not cast shadows.
• Try the copy's ambient value at 3. Do a test render, and adjust the copy's ambient strength as needed.

The construct behaves oddly in several preview modes. Set the preview "document display style" (those billiard ball looking icons) to outline, and you still see the construct as a shaded solid. I find I often need to click the construct's visibility (eye looking icon) off while I position things using outline or hidden line preview display styles.

 

[English Bob]

Hmmm, I don't know if that cluster of lightcasting nodes is effective in Firefly; it was intended for use in Superfly.

I see this effect whatever environment I use - I mainly use Bagginsbill's envsphere. I'm assuming this is because the preview renderer doesn't do IDL, so the light level is boosted at render time. This does depend on what image is applied to the envsphere, of course.

I works the same for me using EZdome and a sIBL, with some sIBLs I cannot even see the dome in the preview. I either add a specular only light or add a 'posing light' as English Bob does and just switch it off before I render, depends on the render as to which.

Here's a tip for you: go to the materials for your posing light and set diffuse and specular to pure black. This will remove its effects from the render, but leave them active in preview. I was always forgetting to turn off my posing light; now I don't have to.

 

[Hornet3d]

I see this effect whatever environment I use - I mainly use Bagginsbill's envsphere. I'm assuming this is because the preview renderer doesn't do IDL, so the light level is boosted at render time. This does depend on what image is applied to the envsphere, of course.



Here's a tip for you: go to the materials for your posing light and set diffuse and specular to pure black. This will remove its effects from the render, but leave them active in preview. I was always forgetting to turn off my posing light; now I don't have to.

Thanks for the tip, I am using spheres a lot more since rending with superfly so this will be a well used tip before long.

 

[Darryl]

Thanks all for the replies. I'm actually glad to see this is common behavior and not an issue with my PP11 install. I already have some other issues so I'm in no hurry to try fixing new ones. I'm going to try some of the advice that's been given when I'm back on my Poser computer again. I haven't used Superfly much but will try that with Seachnasaigh's materials since they were created for that engine.

 

[seachnasaigh]

I haven't used Superfly much but will try that with Seachnasaigh's materials since they were created for that engine.

The sky maps will work fine for Firefly IDL; just make the changes I listed *if* the lightcasting boost doesn't show in Firefly IDL. It may work perfectly well as-is. I don't know offhand, and my machines are tied up right now.
I simply hadn't thought to make Firefly specific materials for them; but the bullet point list of changes will definitely work for Firefly IDL.

 

[Darryl]

The sky maps will work fine for Firefly IDL; just make the changes I listed *if* the lightcasting boost doesn't show in Firefly IDL. It may work perfectly well as-is. I don't know offhand, and my machines are tied up right now.
I simply hadn't thought to make Firefly specific materials for them; but the bullet point list of changes will definitely work for Firefly IDL.

The sky maps work fine for me in Firefly. I was just getting tripped up because I didn't think I'd need a posing light. I'm using a diffuse light for set up and it works fine. The maps are pretty awesome in Superfly though, a really nice variety. Thanks for these Seachnasaigh, I'm appreciating the construct.

 

[Ken1171]

The reason why the previews are pitch black is simple: OpenGL previews cannot calculate anything that requires ray casting. This includes all kinds of raytraced effects, and emissive lights like the skydome. The effects of emissive lights can only be seen after rendered. Therefore if the skydome is your only source of light, you will have pitch black previews. This is normal and will happen in all Poser versions. This is not Poser's fault, it's an OpenGL limitation.

You can compensate with an extra light that is only on before you render. You have to remember turning it off before rendering.

 

[Darryl]

The reason why the previews are pitch black is simple: OpenGL previews cannot calculate anything that requires ray casting. This includes all kinds of raytraced effects, and emissive lights like the skydome. The effects of emissive lights can only be seen after rendered. Therefore if the skydome is your only source of light, you will have pitch black previews. This is normal and will happen in all Poser versions. This is not Poser's fault, it's an OpenGL limitation.

You can compensate with an extra light that is only on before you render. You have to remember turning it off before rendering.

Thanks Ken. Yeah, I figured that out but you've added more detail to my understanding. I had thought I may have run into a PP11 glitch so good to know that it's operating as expected.

 

[eclark1894]

I'm having issues with lighting in PP11. Here I'm using one of Seachnasaigh's Construct textures for the sky dome. I render in Firefly with IDL turned on. If I render it, the light appears in the scene as it does in the Raytrace preview. The Preview window, however catches no light at all. there are no other lights turned on in the scene.

Is this normal? I don't remember this being an issue in 2014 though I hadn't used it much. I have the same issue with other skydomes.

View attachment 34739

Yes, this is normal. 2014 didn't really have Skydomes then, but this is because of Indirect lighting which isn't factored in until rendering. Raytracing is basically a barebones, low, low, low quality render.

 

[seachnasaigh]

If the problem is being able to see the doll for posing, have you tried the hidden line display style? It's the fourth "billiard ball" icon. It is impervious to scene darkness, plus it's excellent for seeing mesh collision and poke-through. This scene has only one 5% light (its lit by mesh lighting when rendered). (Click to enlarge)

 

[Hornet3d]

If the problem is being able to see the doll for posing, have you tried the hidden line display style? It's the fourth "billiard ball" icon. It is impervious to scene darkness, plus it's excellent for seeing mesh collision and poke-through. This scene has only one 5% light (its lit by mesh lighting when rendered). (Click to enlarge)
View attachment 34972

Ohh, that is a nice tip, thanks.

 

[Miss B]

A very nice tip indeed. Thanks Seach.