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Bizarre doesn't even begin to describe it

Doodle Designs

Eager
Contributing Artist
I apologize in advance for the long, complicated post. :oops:

I've been developing a product for Daz Studio which includes several glass block props.

To give the customer the best impression of how the glass block looks when rendered, I wanted to do an animation. Unfortunately (for me), doing a render of even a single 360 x 270 frame takes f-o-r-e-v-e-r on my old Dell 4400 laptop running Windows XP 64-bit (complicated by 2 ray-traced lights, a render settings using a max ray trace depth of 3 and a shading rate of 0.75). There are 1330 frames in the animation, so that means tying up my computer for days on end (possibly a week) to complete the render of the animation. While rendering I can't use my computer for anything else because DS uses 99% of the CPU while rendering, which means - click something and take a nap until the CPU recognizes that you did something.

So, I decided to do my rendering on a different machine. My brother gave me his old Dell XP running Windows 7 64-bit. It's a much faster machine, especially since it's has a faster CPU and it's quad-core (my Dell 4400 is dual-core), but even so I calculated that it would take 4.25 days to to render the entire animation.

I got the render started - and it seems to be right on schedule as it, at the moment, is busy rendering the 871 st frame after running for 2 days and 22 hours.

Still, 4 days to render a single animation is a lot of time, especially if you realize something is wrong and you have to make some changes requiring the render to be started all over again. This has happened once already and I know I'll need to make at least one more change and start the render process over again, but I decided to let the current render run just so I can make sure if there may be any other changes needed which I may not realize until I see the completed animation.

So, I decided to set up another computer to render on. I could set it to do the render from frame 1500 and then edit the separate renders from the two computers together in a video app.

Seemed like a good idea at the time, but I have run into many issues in setting up my even-older Dell 9100 desktop computer, running Windows XP 32-bit. I won't go into any of the problems except the last one - the bizarre one.

I have DS 4.9 running all three computers, but since the Dell 4400 and the Dell XP are 64-bit and the Dell 9100 is 32-bit, I have DS 4.9 Win64 running on the first two computers and DS 4.9 Win32 on the third one.

I thought all I'd have to do would be to copy the duf file I was rendering already on the Dell XP to to the Dell 9100 and away we go.

Nope.

It's never easy, is it? :rolleyes:

The DS 4.9 Win32 wouldn't read the duf file - it would crash every time.

I even tried going back to the original animation which was saved using DS 3.1 Win64 on my Dell 4400, but it still crashed.

Nope again. It crashed too.

I suspected that it might have to do with the 32 and 64 bit difference.

I'll spare you the details (if it isn't already too late ;)), but I wound up reconstructing the animation by reading the old DS 3.1 ds file into DS 4.0 Win32 (installed on the Dell 9100), saved it, read that file into DS 4.9 Win32 (Dell 9100), deleted everything except for V4 and the Mill Cat, which were the only two things animated, loaded the latest version of the glass block bathroom scene, and saved it.

I restarted the Dell 9100, because it seemed to be running even slower than usual, restarted DS 4.9 Win32, and read in the file I had just saved a few minutes before.

Now comes the bizarre part. (If it isn't already too late for that, too. ;))

Everything loaded in okay, except that the background cylinder I was using had one of the mill cat textures applied to it! Huh? So I shut DS down, restarted it, and read the file in again.

Now, there was a cat texture applied to all of the glass blocks! Huh, again? So I repeated the restart and tried a third time.

Now the cat texture was on V4! Triple-huh?

I check various things out and discovered that, even though V4 appeared in the view pane with the cat texture, if I ran a spot render it rendered with the V4 texture. So I looked at the Materials pane and saw that even though the diffuse texture was set to the proper V4 texture, if you hovered the cursor over it so that the preview of the texture came up, it had an odd image of the texture - not either V4 or the cat. (BTW - the cat is in the scene - it's just behind the little half-wall of the shower at the zero frame of the animation.)

Here's a screenshot of what I saw (DS 4.9 WIn32):

Click to enlarge



So I tried to do a single render, hoping it would turn out with the V4 texture, just like the spot render did.

Nope. Well, yes, actually. Sorta. It did use the V4 texture, but the glass block was very strange looking.

How it should look (rendered on the Dell XP in DS 4.9 Win64):



How it turned out rendered on the Dell 9100 using DS 4.9 Win32:



So my "good idea" to save time rendering wound up taking me almost 3 days - and I STILL can't use the second computer to render (Dell 9100)!

I just may have to switch to rendering on the Dell 4400 (using DS 4.9 WIn64 and use the Dell 9100 for my product production work.

*sigh*

Like I said - it's never easy. :rolleyes:
 

Doodle Designs

Eager
Contributing Artist
I just checked the log file and found the following messages:

First load - when the cat texture was loaded on the background:

2016-15-25 20:15:34.078 Failed to load image: C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\Glass Block 2016-09-24\Glass Block Bathroom\Runtime\textures\Doodle Dream Designs\GlassBlock\background-ground.jpg
2016-15-25 20:15:34.078 Operation failed
2016-15-25 20:15:34.078 Failed to load image: C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\Glass Block 2016-09-24\Glass Block Bathroom\Runtime\textures\Doodle Dream Designs\GlassBlock\background-sky.jpg
2016-15-25 20:15:34.078 Operation failed
2016-15-25 20:15:34.093 Failed to load image: C:\Documents and Settings\UserMy Documents\Glass Block 2016-09-24\Glass Block Bathroom\Runtime\textures\Doodle Dream Designs\GlassBlock\background.jpg
2016-15-25 20:15:34.093 Operation failed


Second load - when the cat texture was loaded on the glass blocks:

2016-03-25 20:03:39.546 Operation failed
2016-03-25 20:03:39.578 Failed to load image: C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\Glass Block 2016-09-24\Glass Block Bathroom\Runtime\Textures\Doodle Dream Designs\GlassBlock\gb-end-TRANS.jpg
2016-03-25 20:03:39.578 Operation failed
2016-03-25 20:03:39.703 Failed to load image: C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\Glass Block 2016-09-24\Glass Block Bathroom\Runtime\Textures\Doodle Dream Designs\GlassBlock\glass_block_one_d-TRANS.jpg
2016-03-25 20:03:39.703 Operation failed
2016-03-25 20:03:39.796 Failed to load image: C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\Glass Block 2016-09-24\Glass Block Bathroom\Runtime\Textures\Doodle Dream Designs\GlassBlock\gb-top-corner-TRANS.jpg
2016-03-25 20:03:39.796 Operation failed
2016-03-25 20:03:39.843 Failed to load image: C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\Glass Block 2016-09-24\Glass Block Bathroom\Runtime\Textures\Doodle Dream Designs\GlassBlock\45-deg-TRANS.jpg
2016-03-25 20:03:39.843 Operation failed
2016-03-25 20:03:39.859 Failed to load image: C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\Glass Block 2016-09-24\Glass Block Bathroom\Runtime\Textures\Doodle Dream Designs\GlassBlock\45-deg-top-TRANS.jpg
2016-03-25 20:03:39.859 Operation failed


Third load - when the cat texture was loaded on V4:

2016-36-25 20:36:11.140 Failed to load image: C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\Glass Block 2016-09-24\Data for GBB animated renders\Runtime\textures\DAZ\Characters\MilWom\V4\V4HiLimbsM.jpg
2016-36-25 20:36:11.140 Operation failed
2016-36-25 20:36:11.375 Loaded image V4HiMouthM.jpg
2016-36-25 20:36:11.500 Loaded image V4HiEyesM.jpg
2016-36-25 20:36:11.531 Failed to load image: C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\Glass Block 2016-09-24\Data for GBB animated renders\Runtime\textures\DAZ\Characters\MilWom\V4\V4HiFace_Doll.jpg
2016-36-25 20:36:11.531 Operation failed
2016-36-25 20:36:11.546 Failed to load image: C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\Glass Block 2016-09-24\Data for GBB animated renders\Runtime\textures\DAZ\Characters\MilWom\V4\V4HiTorsoM.jpg
2016-36-25 20:36:11.546 Operation failed
.
. <snip>
.
2016-41-25 20:41:28.484 Failed to load image: C:\Documents and Settings\Elizabeth Ippolito\My Documents\Glass Block 2016-09-24\Data for GBB animated renders\Runtime\textures\DAZ\Characters\MilWom\V4\V4HiFaceS.jpg
2016-41-25 20:41:28.484 Operation failed
2016-41-25 20:41:28.500 Failed to load image: C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\Glass Block 2016-09-24\Data for GBB animated renders\Runtime\textures\DAZ\Characters\MilWom\V4\V4HiFaceB.jpg
2016-41-25 20:41:28.500 Operation failed


So, for whatever reason, DS sometimes find the correct textures, and other times it doesn't (even though all the textures are where they should be in the texture folder) - BUT - why slap the cat textures on when it can't find the proper texture?
 

Lorraine

The Wicked Witch of the North
Studio hates us is my go to reason for whatever it inflicts on me now. I can't help with your problem but I am sorry it's happening, and I do hope someone else can come up with a solution.
 

tparo

Engaged
QAV-BEE
This sort of thing tends to happen when you don't have enough memory, a 32 bit computer is going to struggle with most things these days.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
I don't know much about animating in DS but I do know some general animation stuff that might help you, at least to reduce render times. What frame rate are you using? I know Poser defaults to 30 FPS (frames per second). For what you are doing, I wouldn't go above 24 (the standard for film). Actually, you can go as low as 16 FPS if you have no audio, and depending on how much quick movement there is in your scene. If you are mostly slowly panning through the scene, a lower frame rate won't hurt at all.

The other thing is that I know you have a full bathroom, and you do have some reflective surfaces, so you may want 'off camera' objects to show. However, any and all items that won't show in the animation that you can delete out of the scene will help, especially if it is a memory issue. For instance I think before you showed some screen shots with some shampoo bottles. If they don't show, get them out of the scene, because that will be one less texture to load.

If you don't think there are any walls etc. that you don't think you can get rid of for the whole animation, you could also render in sections. So lets say the first 3 seconds mostly show one area. Save a new version of you scene for those first 3 seconds, and get rid of everything that doesn't show during those first 3 seconds and just render out those 3 seconds. Then save a new version of your original scene, and in this one you'll just render seconds 3-6, so you can get rid of things that aren't rendered during that time. The nice thing is, since you can have perfect control over the frames, you should be able to easily join the video back together (assuming you have some sort of video editing software).
 

Doodle Designs

Eager
Contributing Artist
Studio hates us is my go to reason for whatever it inflicts on me now.

LOL! Sounds as good a "reason" as any to me! ;)

This sort of thing tends to happen when you don't have enough memory, a 32 bit computer is going to struggle with most things these days.

Ah, ha! Sounds like a likely suspect to me. I was trying to use the oldest and slowest computer I have with the least amount of memory - not to mention everything else hardware wise.

I knew that the Dell 4400 was a better choice for rendering, but it's my only laptop and I sometimes like to take it with me - like when I parent-sit for a friend who is taking care of her 90+-year-old parents so she can get a break every now and again. But, I guess I could always transfer the data over to the laptop before I pack it up. I do have all 3 computers networked together through my modem, so it isn't that painful of an experience. Or, I could use a thumb drive.

I don't know much about animating in DS but I do know some general animation stuff that might help you, at least to reduce render times. What frame rate are you using? I know Poser defaults to 30 FPS (frames per second). For what you are doing, I wouldn't go above 24 (the standard for film). Actually, you can go as low as 16 FPS if you have no audio, and depending on how much quick movement there is in your scene. If you are mostly slowly panning through the scene, a lower frame rate won't hurt at all.

The other thing is that I know you have a full bathroom, and you do have some reflective surfaces, so you may want 'off camera' objects to show. However, any and all items that won't show in the animation that you can delete out of the scene will help, especially if it is a memory issue. For instance I think before you showed some screen shots with some shampoo bottles. If they don't show, get them out of the scene, because that will be one less texture to load.

If you don't think there are any walls etc. that you don't think you can get rid of for the whole animation, you could also render in sections. So lets say the first 3 seconds mostly show one area. Save a new version of you scene for those first 3 seconds, and get rid of everything that doesn't show during those first 3 seconds and just render out those 3 seconds. Then save a new version of your original scene, and in this one you'll just render seconds 3-6, so you can get rid of things that aren't rendered during that time. The nice thing is, since you can have perfect control over the frames, you should be able to easily join the video back together (assuming you have some sort of video editing software).

Thanks for the tips!

I have already made the off-screen walls and other objects invisible, turned reflections off on all surfaces (a lot) that use reflection which are off-screen, and have turned off three of the five ray-tracing lights, but I didn't think about lowering the frame rate. That would definitely help - especially because I just slowly pan the camera, but I'll have to test how low I can go because there is audio.

There are all things that help - no matter which computer is rendering.

I also always render to a series of still images, rather than to a video file. I learned early on that if DS crashes or hangs up while rendering a video that you loose the entire video. It happened the first time after rendering for over five hours - a LOT of work to loose! I was pleasantly surprised to discover that the computer my brother gave me can run without DS crashing. But it makes sense since it's the newest of the three computers with the best hardware and software resources.

I have video software that can load all the individual jpegs, add the audio, and create the final video.
 

Pendraia

Sage
Contributing Artist
I have a quad core with 16gb Ram and I still get lots of strange bugs happening in DS4.9. Stuff that when I close the program and restart it are no longer there. I did get a weird one the other day though. I had a pair of shoes that I weightmapped and tried to save and DS just refused to save them. I thought okay there is a problem with the shoes so I opened them in Zbrush and checked the mesh integrity and they were fine. Restarted the program, even restarted the computer and it's still happening. I think I may have to go back to 4.8 as I didn't get these problems there.
 

Doodle Designs

Eager
Contributing Artist
About five minutes after the 4 1/2 day render of the animation finished, the computer my brother gave me DIED! I think I killed it.

Fortunately, he had another one that he uses for fixing other people's computer problems and doesn't use it often so he loaned it to me for rendering. It's not as fast as the other one, but it is faster than either of my other computers.

Then my brother diagnosed the haywire (as opposed to HiveWire) one over the phone, telling me that it sounded like it was a problem with the memory boards. He told me to open it up and check that they were all seated firmly. So I wiggled them and restarted the computer.

It worked! (If only all computer problems were that easy to solve.)

So now I have two computers splitting up the rendering.

Gee, I wonder if two computers qualifies me to call it a render farm? ;)

I also discovered that I had 3 ray tracing lights on, rather than one like I thought. Turning two of them off made the renders go a LOT faster! About twice as fast. Now it'll take about 2 days to do a render of the 40-second animation - 1,200 frames.

I experimented with rendering at 24 frames per second but that didn't work for me. I couldn't get the audio track to fit. Oh, well, it was worth a shot.

Thanks again everyone for the help! :)
 

kobaltkween

Brilliant
Contributing Artist
Studio hates us is my go to reason for whatever it inflicts on me now. I can't help with your problem but I am sorry it's happening, and I do hope someone else can come up with a solution.

My husband produces music, and he has a few different people he follows. One of them made this hilarious fake interview where his equipment can talk. After the artist praises his equipment and says how they work well together, the piece of equipment says, "Man, I don't even like that dude!" It proceeds to willfully mess up his work, add random cowbell, and refuse to save his work that he does like. I think that's the relationship most artists have with our tech.

I'm really glad you found a solution to your problem, Triple-D.
 
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