Show Us Your Dawn Renders!

[Hornet3d]

Nice HDRi Hornet. The only thing I would like better in that image, is to have her skin brighter, especially her face, though her hair could be a bit brighter as well. They seem to be melding in with the underside of the train tracks in the background behind her.

You could also move her a bit to the right (her left) so that her head and shoulders are in front of the lighter train tracks that are turning to the right in the HDRi image, which would give you more contrast. Oh, and you might try to turn her slightly to her right when you move her over a little, so she looks as if she's walking towards the center of the image from perhaps near that bench those folks are sitting on over on the right. That would put her more in the lighter portion of the image, so there would be more contrast between her and the HDRi. Just a couple of suggestions.

Thank you for the suggestions I like them all and I will give them a try. I am trying to get the best I can from Superfly so that I can then either match or improve it by using Octane. This should give me a better idea of the strengths of each render engine, of course the big one for Octane is speed but then the Superfly are not bad on my system now.

 

[Ken1171]

I would just add an extra area light to Octane and place it on either left or right front of the character. That should produce a nice contrast and add more depth.

 

[Hornet3d]

I would just add an extra area light to Octane and place it on either left or right front of the character. That should produce a nice contrast and add more depth.

Thank you, that is the first thing I will try when I try it in Octane,

 

[Miss B]

Good point Ken, as I know folks add a light or two when working with some HDRis.

 

[Ken1171]

HDRI alone cannot provide decent lighting for 3D scenes. They should always be accompanied of 1 or 2 extra lights to provide depth and contrast. Pure HDRI from photos will generally produce rather flat-looking images.

 

[Miss B]

Well, in some cases I agree with you. I've used a couple of HDRis that have been well lit for what I wanted from them, and I always use Snarly's EZDome with HDRis so I think it does a better job than just adding a HDRi to Poser's Background, or a flat backdrop prop.

 

[phdubrov]

HDRI alone cannot provide decent lighting for 3D scenes. They should always be accompanied of 1 or 2 extra lights to provide depth and contrast. Pure HDRI from photos will generally produce rather flat-looking images.

Just like natural lighting. (And there are books on how to work around this.)
To get away with HDRI-only lighting you need an HDRI of a "light tunnel" or "light well" types environment. And still could need eye-light.

I would just add an extra area light to Octane and place it on either left or right front of the character. That should produce a nice contrast and add more depth.

This is exactly what many wedding photographers do. Extra area light = assistant with a big (1.5-2 meters) umbrella with a hi-power flash. From 30 to 90 degrees from the camera line depending on composition, 1-3 sizes of the umbrella from a subject.

 

[Ken1171]

Just like natural lighting. (And there are books on how to work around this.)
To get away with HDRI-only lighting you need an HDRI of a "light tunnel" or "light well" types environment. And still could need eye-light.

This is exactly what many wedding photographers do. Extra area light = assistant with a big (1.5-2 meters) umbrella with a hi-power flash. From 30 to 90 degrees from the camera line depending on composition, 1-3 sizes of the umbrella from a subject.

 

[Ken1171]

Well, in some cases I agree with you. I've used a couple of HDRis that have been well lit for what I wanted from them, and I always use Snarly's EZDome with HDRis so I think it does a better job than just adding a HDRi to Poser's Background, or a flat backdrop prop.

This is where Octane differs from Superfly in Poser - it includes a physical sky by default, which can be combined with HDRI to complement as needed. In other words, adding a light sphere like EZDome would block all lights from entering the scene, turning it pitch black. In Octane, we just add HDRI without any spheres. I believe it's the same in I-ray.

But even with EZDome, it still offers an option to add a "sun" extra light, matching its position in the photograph, which will make up for the lack of light contrast that is typical of HDRI lighting. However, I find that useless because I use artistic lighting, so I need to place the lights precisely where they need to be depending on the character pose, which will never match where EZDome thinks it should be. We also have to rotate the HDRI sphere to place the backdrop where it needs to be in relation to the character, and that would move the EZDome "sun", making the lighting placement rather random.

What I actually find EZDome useful for is its ability of separating HDRI light from the backdrop, so we can control them separately. It uses 2 spheres for that. In Octane, this is why we have HDRI separate from the physical sky. What you see as the backdrop, and where the light comes from don't have to be tied together - at least for the sake of artistic lighting. This is why 3D cameras are better then real world ones - we can control such things.

 

[Me195]

Lydia Belmont WIP

 

[Hornet3d]

I am glad I am not the only one finding restrictions when using the "sun" extra light with EZDome, for the same reasons you have given. Like you I like the flexibility of the two domes and the lighting options that gives.

As I am new to Octane and only downloaded Octane 4 a few days ago I decided to start with something simple to see make sure everything is alright. One thing I have found is that setting the resolution in the film setting sometimes produces a warning that there is a script error. A big plus though is the boxes now display on a 4K screen which was not the case before, not for me at least.

Anyway this is Dawn straight from Poser with one infinite light and one spot converted via the Octane script into an emitter. The only change I had to make was to the strength of the specular on the hair and reduce the power of the emitter. My intention was to to do any post work but the lighting in the centre of the eyes made he look really spooky so I quickly added highlights. Render time was a little over fifteen minutes.

 

[Hornet3d]

Lydia Belmont WIP
View attachment 42998

She doesn't looked too troubled I guess she has a plan.

 

[Rae134]

HDRI alone cannot provide decent lighting for 3D scenes. They should always be accompanied of 1 or 2 extra lights to provide depth and contrast. Pure HDRI from photos will generally produce rather flat-looking images.

Is that just a Poser thing? In Iray I almost never use an extra light and the lighting is fine (it depends on the HDRi). I think the only ones I add lights to are Fabi's ones but they were designed to have a 3 point light system to go with them.

 

[Hornet3d]

Is that just a Poser thing? In Iray I almost never use an extra light and the lighting is fine (it depends on the HDRi). I think the only ones I add lights to are Fabi's ones but they were designed to have a 3 point light system to go with them.

I am not sure if it is just a Poser thing as that is all I use. I can get some decent results but only if I use EZDome so that I can balance the light and the brightness of the background, in other words balancing the inner and outer dome. I don't have enough experience with Octane to be able to comment but the results I have seen using HDR Light Studio is simply stunning but as a hobbyist that is way out of my price range.

 

[Ken1171]

Is that just a Poser thing? In Iray I almost never use an extra light and the lighting is fine (it depends on the HDRi). I think the only ones I add lights to are Fabi's ones but they were designed to have a 3 point light system to go with them.

There are some issues with HDRI in Poser, and I think they are related to the tiny Poser scale. For instance, when I load an HDRI photo-based image in Poser, they tend to look HUGE comparing to the size I see for the same image when loaded in DAZ Studio. Physically-based HDRI lighting is critically affected by real-world scale, which Poser doesn't care for. As a practical example, if you carry a 60W lamp on your hand, it will illuminate your bedroom completely. Now do the same inside a huge industrial warehouse, and your same 60W lamp will barely have any effect. PBR rendering requires precise real-world scaling, and that's why I never have the same HDRI effect in Poser as I do in other software. Even in Octane, I have different HDRI results when used on the stand alone, and then in the Poser plugin. The tiny Poser scene scale tends to mess things up when it comes to physically-based lighting, where attributes like intensity completely loose their meaning, because the scene is NOT in real-world scale, so the effects end up out of proportion.

Nonetheless, HDRI is generally good for adding ambiance to a scene, but are not meant to replace proper scene lighting, with at least 1 key light to add contrast and depth. Depending on the backdrop, the character pose, and the HDRI distribution, just 1 extra light might not suffice, ending up with the character merging with the background, or a straight out flat render. That's my humble opinion.

PS: DAZ Studio has an option to automatically create an extra light attached to the camera, called the "head lamp". This is set so it will be automatically added if your scene has no lights, like it might be when using only HDRI. So you may THINK you are only using HDRI, but DS might be adding the extra light without people knowing. I think that option is enabled by default. I personally prefer to disable that, because the automatically added light is placed at the WORST possible place - right at the center, in front of your character. That's great to produce washed out renders with flat characters.

 

[Rae134]

PS: DAZ Studio has an option to automatically create an extra light attached to the camera, called the "head lamp". This is set so it will be automatically added if your scene has no lights, like it might be when using only HDRI. So you may THINK you are only using HDRI, but DS might be adding the extra light without people knowing. I think that option is enabled by default. I personally prefer to disable that, because the automatically added light is placed at the WORST possible place - right at the center, in front of your character. That's great to produce washed out renders with flat characters.

Yeah, I always have it switched off/disabled as I hate that lighting.
Not all HDRi's are created equal, some work better than others. I have had some that need an extra light source and others that work perfectly without any added (In DS that is)

 

[Me195]

She doesn't looked too troubled I guess she has a plan.

She can handle it. The Belmonts train rigorously for Dracula's eventual return. The barely visible whip she's holding her right hand is the legendary Vampire Killer. She really only needs to touch those creatures with it and they will burst into flames. It's a Castlevania inspired render, so that why the silly name for the whip.

 

[Hornet3d]

She can handle it. The Belmonts train rigorously for Dracula's eventual return. The barely visible whip she's holding her right hand is the legendary Vampire Killer. She really only needs to touch those creatures with it and they will burst into flames. It's a Castlevania inspired render, so that why the silly name for the whip.

You certainly portrayed the air of confidence she has very well, I like it very much.

 

[Hornet3d]

WOW, this is fun. Playing with the materials supplied with Octane.

 

[Ken1171]

Yeah, I always have it switched off/disabled as I hate that lighting.
Not all HDRi's are created equal, some work better than others. I have had some that need an extra light source and others that work perfectly without any added (In DS that is)

WOW, this is fun. Playing with the materials supplied with Octane.

Indeed! The real deal with Octane is when we start using its own materials. ^^