Official Announcement: HiveWire 3D to publish Animals through DAZ 3D

[eclark1894]

I saw your response, and that person started another thread, where Rae mentioned that piece of software to make content DIM ready, which I had never heard of before.

This particular person stated he (I think it's a he) bought it again at DAZ, so I'm assuming he'll be following others' suggestions to get in touch with HW about a refund. Don't know when the purchase was made, but hopefully within the alotted 30 days.

He bought it on June 24th, so it's only been about 3 weeks.

 

[Rae134]

Release date on the read me says 2016-04-14. I've only been doing 3D since 4.8 and I really only knew about the smart content. It wasn't until I got Harry, then the other HW stuff that I knew how to do it "manually".

I'm glad DS was free, I don't think I would have given 3D another go otherwise. (my toes-in-the-water with an earlier Poser put me off for about 10 years, just couldn't get my head around it). Now I've got the new poser its not a daunting as it was but its still hard for me to get my head around sometimes.
Its amazing how one program clicks for one person and another program doesn't and the other program is easy-peasy for a different person and they can't get their head around the one you can. Every one learns differently and comprehends things differently.

 

[sean_martin]

It's no secret that DAZ just when through a series of layoffs... trimming staff is usually an indication of some issues

I can tell you as someone who has been a brokered artist pretty much from day one of the 3D art's birth that the high-water mark in 3D's popularity was around 2010 and since then it has been steadily declining (even at DAZ).

The problem with the declining customer base is two-fold. The novelty of 3D and hopes of getting a second-chance career as a 3D artist have faded and, to speak, bluntly, the hobbyist base that DAZ, HiveWire and others depend on is getting older. Apart from aging and health issues, finances and priorities change. There's been numerous pushes to bring "new blood" into our 3D world, but none have really been that successful.

Oh, I really have to disagree that 3D art is fading, seriously. If you look at what we had to work with in 2010 in comparison to the tools we have now, it's a whole new world. IMHO, it's not so much that it's fading as it is that it's become more challenging. You cant get away with just figure from column A and pose from column B and prop background piece from column C. The level of expectation has gone seriously up, coupled with the fact that programs like Blender have become more intuitive than they once were. Look at some of the animation work done in just the past few years by places like Ringling College: a lot of that would have been impossible a decade ago without access to seriously high powered equipment.

What's holding Poser and Studio back in some respects is the dense polygon count. Yep, great to have those breast morphs when you want them, but they require so much more power than the end result really warrants. Instead of making things more efficiently, we've been bogged down with clothing props in which every little frill is fully annotated. That's killing these programs for any kind of real world use outside of our little hobbyist market, because they're just not efficient enough.

If Poser and Studio are to survive, they're gonna have to look at what the cool kids are using these days and learn from that experience.

 

[daywalker03]

What's holding Poser and Studio back in some respects is the dense polygon count.

LOL... Some folks over on the DAZ forums are crying because the mesh isnt' dense enough for them to work with at base resolution, and yet I've seen some absolutely incredible products that don't use DAZ's HD technology.

 

[Hornet3d]

Oh, I really have to disagree that 3D art is fading, seriously. If you look at what we had to work with in 2010 in comparison to the tools we have now, it's a whole new world. IMHO, it's not so much that it's fading as it is that it's become more challenging. You cant get away with just figure from column A and pose from column B and prop background piece from column C. The level of expectation has gone seriously up, coupled with the fact that programs like Blender have become more intuitive than they once were. Look at some of the animation work done in just the past few years by places like Ringling College: a lot of that would have been impossible a decade ago without access to seriously high powered equipment.

What's holding Poser and Studio back in some respects is the dense polygon count. Yep, great to have those breast morphs when you want them, but they require so much more power than the end result really warrants. Instead of making things more efficiently, we've been bogged down with clothing props in which every little frill is fully annotated. That's killing these programs for any kind of real world use outside of our little hobbyist market, because they're just not efficient enough.

If Poser and Studio are to survive, they're gonna have to look at what the cool kids are using these days and learn from that experience.

I don't think 3D art is fading as such, although many artist in the forums seem to be around my age and I am no spring chicken, but it is changing. I do feel there is a declining customer base and those customers are buying less for a number of different reasons. The number of markets places for this part of the market has reduced, the number of figures in general use is much greater. Add into this mix the ability to use content made to fit one figure on any figure further reduces sales. The games market used to be the preserve of studios now it has a vast following of talented individuals. All this leads to a trend where the sales are down on what they were and, as they stay alive by taking a percentage on each sale the market places profit must under pressure. I do not prescribe that to one market place but offer it as a description of the environment all such ventures work in.

 

[sandman_max]

Are the add-ons for the HiveWire Big Cat at going to be sold over at DAZ or do I continue to buy them here? Like Iray eyes?

 

[Alisa]

There is no one who has said thus far that they are planning to attempt to move their products to DAZ instead of here, with the exception of a few of CWRW (Laurie)'s products that Chris mentioned in the first post of this thread.

As long as a CA has purchased the product, they can sell things anywhere they want. If they sell them at most stores in addition to here, the product remains here and they just get a smaller percentage of profit than if they are exclusive here. However, DAZ insists on exclusivity, so if they submit something to DAZ and it's accepted and they choose to move it there, it would no longer be here.

Hope that helps.

 

[Mythocentric]

There are a lot of things here at HiveWire that only work in either DS or Poser. If Poser users continue to refuse to buy from Daz and do little but throw insults around why would the PA's create for Poser, you can't expect people to spend there time create for Poser if they don't see any reward for their work, you have to be prepared to support the vendors or they won't create.

I don't throw insults around, I base my statements on fact and it's my opinion that the major contributor to the problems which face us now can be laid at the door of Daz and it's corporate hostility to anything they cannot influence. There are, believe it or not, many people out here, who exercise their integrity by thus refusing to buy products from that company and that includes me. I certainly didn't force any PA's to start producing for DS only. I have all of DMR's output right up to their switchover.That was their choice, so why should I buy products that are useless to me just to satisfy your version of how things should be? I do not discriminate against anyone who creates 3D content regardless of platform but I do reserve the right not to line the coffers of the company largely responsible for the chaos we see today. That's my decision and you have the right to challenge it on the condition, of course, that you do so with reasoned argument rather than the obvious hostility your post displays. Incidentally, while you have demanded to see proof of source for justification of statements both here and elsewhere, don't you think it would be polite to reciprocate and quote your sources in return?
I made my decision for the same reason that I closed my Barclay's Bank account because of their deep involvement in South African apartheid. It's why I opposed the USA/US involvement in Iraq amongst other things. Politics aside it's why I choose not to purchase any future animals from Hivewire (I already own Harry, Gorilla and Big and Little Kitty pre-Daz), not because of the PAs. Indeed I would challenge anyone to approach Chris and the team's abilities to anything like their standards. It's because I refuse to support the hostile Daz business model it's so willingly pursued over the last few years to the detriment of other businesses and 3D artists in the community.
Apologies to everyone for continuing the sour note injected into an otherwise sensibly conducted thread. My only excuse is that when someone decides to fire bullets at me they should not be surprised when their ill-informed comments are met by return fire.
At which point I will end this post, withdraw from this thread, forum and Hivewire. Best wishes to all my new friends and I wish you a happy and successful future. Regards!

 

[Alisa]

Whoa, wait - because we're selling the animals at DAZ, you're not just saying "I won't buy things at DAZ", but "I am not having anything more to do with HiveWire, including our forums? Mythocentric, that would be a loss to all of us. You are a part of this community.

You are PERFECTLY within your rights to state your opinions here, as long as they don't violate our TOS. You've never ever violated our TOS, so I hope you'll reconsider and stay, whether you buy our Animals at DAZ or not!

That said, I think some of the things you posted in that last post are a bit harsh.

I'm going to shoot you a pm, in case you've unsubscribed from this thread.

 

[Alisa]

The above said, I'd like to throw out a bunch of thoughts I had. Please note that I wrote this before the last several posts, and it is NOT in response to any one person, rather to the temperatures that seem to be rising, with the hope of cooling things down:

Hopefully we can keep this thread sort of generally on target and away from the Poser vs DS, Smith Micro vs DAZ, Poser supporters vs DAZ Studio supporters discussions. Remember, we support BOTH programs from BOTH companies. If you disagree with what someone says, feel free to politely disagree and express your opinion, and if you feel that a post is inappropriate or violates our TOS, use the Report button and we'll look at it.

People have posted here about the layoffs at SM and speculated about their "issues" and future as well....and most of them are Poser users. Likewise people have speculated about what's happening at DAZ. And at HiveWire.

It's human nature to speculate, but please be careful not to take it beyond that, into "this is what's happening and I know it is but can't tell you why or how I know". Sometimes it's best to just keep that information to yourself and particularly not share it on a public forum.

Remember that there are PEOPLE behind avatars, products, vendors, and companies. Also remember that it's likely there are things behind decisions made by people and companies that they can't or don't want to share at the time, for many reasons.

CAs here and at DAZ and everywhere else have the right to create for whatever programs/render engines they choose. Likewise, customers have the right to not buy from certain stores or vendors, or to only buy things that support the program(s) they choose. All have the right to change their minds. The store or vendor changing THEIR mind and going back to supporting something a customer wishes they hadn't stopped supporting does not mean that customer is obliged to buy the products. Might that result in "I told you so!?" from the store or vendor? Sure. And maybe they are right. And maybe not.

I will tell you that moderating forums is not an easy thing. We try to err on the side of letting people express their thoughts and opinions, but expect it to remain polite..which generally is the case. We also don't have a bias here in moderating due to preferring one program over another..because we support both.

I hope this doesn't come across as overly preachy, but I just don't want our community, which HiveWire treasures, to end up with fractures over all of this STUFF.

 

[daywalker03]

Whoa, wait - because we're selling the animals at DAZ, you're not just saying "I won't buy things at DAZ", but "I am not having anything more to do with HiveWire, including our forums? Mythocentric, that would be a loss to all of us. You are a part of this community.

You are PERFECTLY within your rights to state your opinions here, as long as they don't violate our TOS. You've never ever violated our TOS, so I hope you'll reconsider and stay, whether you buy our Animals at DAZ or not!

I'm going to shoot you a pm, in case you've unsubscribed from this thread.

Some folks may never get over whatever happened at DAZ that led to the schism; I don't believe it was entirely any one party's fault, but then I don't know all the little things that have been viewed as them being hostile to Poser users. I like to be postive and see that there is a chance, however slim, that all groups of content buyers will have what they want.

 

[Miss B]

He bought it on June 24th, so it's only been about 3 weeks.

Ahhhh OK. I couldn't remember if he had just stated he bought it in June, or on a particular day in June, so yes he has time to get in touch and get a refund.

 

[Miss B]

Apologies to everyone for continuing the sour note injected into an otherwise sensibly conducted thread. My only excuse is that when someone decides to fire bullets at me they should not be surprised when their ill-informed comments are met by return fire.
At which point I will end this post, withdraw from this thread, forum and Hivewire. Best wishes to all my new friends and I wish you a happy and successful future. Regards!

Please don't leave Mytho!! As Alisa has stated, you are definitely a part of this community, and you would definitely be missed.

 

[TaishoBee]

I know that the Poser version will still be there, but I just don't like buying from Daz and it feels like I'm going to be forced to because of how badly I want a dog.

 

[Pendraia]

Mytho...you can't leave...I'm in the middle of making a bathing suit for you for Diva....

 

[Hornet3d]

Some folks may never get over whatever happened at DAZ that led to the schism; I don't believe it was entirely any one party's fault, but then I don't know all the little things that have been viewed as them being hostile to Poser users. I like to be postive and see that there is a chance, however slim, that all groups of content buyers will have what they want.

I am with you in the sentiments you have outlined here. I think what is often forgotten is that people have had some very different experiences at Daz and while I still shop there I do so reluctantly. The reasons are for a multitude of things, part of the reason I still shop there is because it was Daz that brought me into this hobby and I am sure that without the free copy of their software I would not be doing it now. They are therefore responsible to over 14 years of fun I have had playing with my art so in a sense I owe them a lot. Offsetting that the Daz I see today is a very different Daz that got me interested in the hobby and there is much I about it that does not lie easily with me and with what principles I have, but they are my principles that ultimately influence my decision. Ever other person will have had a different experience with Daz and have different principles and the resultant choice of how to, or even, if they are to buy from Daz will be theirs alone. No one will have the same exact experience and each of us will live our lives working to the codes of life we were born with and have developed with each life experience. As we cannot look through others eyes with any degree of accuracy or live the same experiences it seems wrong to condemn, or assume an outcome from their decision.

I used to work for a support group who's policy was never to give advice. It was a policy I struggled with for along time until some one took the time to break it down to a simple explanation I could under stand. Their explanation - 'When you give advice you are actually saying is "this is what I would do if I were you", trouble is you are not them and what works for you won't necessarily work for them'. With all the best will in the world you can't be them so you have to settle for second best, listen hard and try to understand them. If you listen hard enough you might just get an understanding that lets you share their pain.

I am not sure what I took away from that support group but I hope I learned not to be too quick to judge others.

 

[Nod]

There are a lot of things here at HiveWire that only work in either DS or Poser. If Poser users continue to refuse to buy from Daz and do little but throw insults around why would the PA's create for Poser, you can't expect people to spend there time create for Poser if they don't see any reward for their work, you have to be prepared to support the vendors or they won't create.

I don't use Daz, purely because of their lack of support for Poser & Carrara over the last few years. I didn't like the aggressive marketing of DS only products either. They even stopped some products from being Poser compatible. I know this from my wish list, as I hate DS, so only added Poser items. The remaining items in my wish list are now DS only. So, I cancelled my Platinum membership because of it, as it was basically throwing money away.

I came here, because of the support for Poser. I went to RDNA, because they supported Poser. Unfortunately, Daz took them over, and the Poser products stopped.

So if they start supporting Poser again, I'll start buying again.

I have to wonder how long Daz will go back to being Poser friendly though.

 

[Miss B]

I have to wonder how long Daz will go back to being Poser friendly though.

I guess Nod, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

Alisa, I don't read your post as being overly preachy ... or even a wee bit preachy.

 

[Alisa]

Thanks, Satira!

Just so you all know, Myth isn't leaving, we had a good conversation and he's just gonna pull out of this thread for his sanity .