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Discriminator Map Techniques/Poser Material Room Tricks

seachnasaigh

Energetic
Reworking Stonemason's old 2004 Level 19 and the add-on cargo bay doors for Superfly. They came with P4, PP (P4 Pro Pack), and P5 materials. I gave the concrete non-repeating tiling for closeup detail, and gave the metal areas Superfly metallicity. All of the lights are now meshlights.

 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Looking great Seach. I never could get the lights to look that good.
 

seachnasaigh

Energetic
I tried a different method for this re-MAT; I made discriminator maps to determine where my own concrete would show, where the original texture would show (stenciled markings, for example), and where they would be blended.

Where the discriminator map is light, my material shows; where it is dark the original texture shows.
If Stonemason gives permission for distribution of the discriminator maps, I'd release this as a freebie.
The lights don't use a discriminator map derived from the original texture, so I can release MC6s for the lights.

My Superfly re-MATs for The Arc and Urban Future II don't have derivative discriminator maps at all, so I can release complete Superfly packs for them.
 

Seliah (Childe of Fyre)

Running with the wolves.
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
Seach, that re-work looks absolutely gorgeous. Hopefully he'll allow you to distribute the maps (what are discriminator maps? I've never heard that term before).
 

seachnasaigh

Energetic
Thank you, MissB and Seliah.:)

A discriminator map is used to distinguish between areas within a single material zone. The B&W one shown above discriminates between new material (white) and the original texture map (black). A transparency map is one particular type of discriminator map.

Sometimes, I'll use a map which is RGB on a black background to give me four different textures on a single material zone.


Black areas are the default grass & violets. Blue is muddy streambed. Green is bare road/footpath. Red is steep vine-covered stony hillside.

The double green lines give me wagon-wheel ruts:


If I move the bridge, or need to dodge around a newly added tree/building, then I simply erase part of the green lines and draw in a new section of road! Easy!
 

Seliah (Childe of Fyre)

Running with the wolves.
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
Thanks for the explanation. :) So do those maps get applied to the opacity channel, or are they something that is specific to Superfly only?

Sorry for the stupid questions. But well, a question not asked...... ;)
 

seachnasaigh

Energetic
That render of the elf girl on a unicorn riding over a bridge is a Firefly render - the RGB discriminator map technique works for both Firefly and Superfly.

Here is a simplified RGB composite material:


Notice the three "Comp" nodes; that's component, as in RGB (red/green/blue) color component. The top component node is set to 0, and reads red from the RGB map. The middle component node is set to 1, and reads green from the RGB map. The bottom component node is set to 2, and reads blue from the RGB map.
Each component node produces a B&W mask for its terrain area.

I use those three component nodes to control the blending of three blender nodes.

Each blender node replaces some of the default terrain texture with its particular alternative texture.

Pink flowers appear wherever the RGB map was red; bright green leaves appear where the RGB map was green (hard to see the thin green lines); blue water appears where the RGB map was blue; the default terrain texture remains where the RGB map is black.

If you want to dissect and reverse engineer this material setup, download my (free!) Galadriel's Mirror enviro playset or the Eldar House enviro playset from ShareCG. Both of those playsets use this type of terrain material, and neither requires Superfly.
 
D

Deleted member 325

Guest
And you basically apply this to a simple ground prop (square or round)? I feel like such a beginner now, I never would have thought to use RGB maps this way... Opens up whole new worlds of possibility.
 

seachnasaigh

Energetic
And you basically apply this to a simple ground prop (square or round)?... Opens up whole new worlds of possibility.
It can be a simple ground plane (either square or round), but it can just as well be a complex terrain mesh, or even a non-terrain object. You could make a control map for the P9 flat square ground plane or the P11 "construct" (shaped more like a Hershey's Kiss, sans peaked top).
The mesh could be an urban "ground level"; black is asphalt, red is sidewalk/curb, green is crosswalk (striped asphalt), blue is storm sewer grate.
It could be a space ship: R=ceiling, G=catwalk floor grate, B=light panels, black=hull wall.
It could be a doll's skin: R=chain mail, G=leather, B=tattoo, black=bare skin.

You can study the terrain from one of my enviro sets. It will look intimidating at first; then you'll realize that it's just repeated clusters of nodes. Instead of a single image map as in the demo above, each color (Red, Green, Blue, and black) will have a pair of similar asymmetrical seamless tiles. Instead of tiling one image map, I tile a scrambled mix of the two maps. Why? So that you can tile multiple times and not see a blatant repeated tile pattern. This enables you to cover a massive terrain with fine closeup detail at modest memory cost.o_O
Lothlorien is tiled 800 times; it would take 48 Millennium Environments strung together to reach from one side to the other. Yet, you could render a doll's shoe and see decent detail (twigs, grass blades) on the ground at her feet.

Notice that the tiles have different scales. One source picture may have been taken at 5ft away, while another was taken at 8ft. So, I scale the image maps to get them equalized. That also helps prevent repeated tile artifacts, because the two maps are repeating at different rates.

I have boxed in pink one of these 2-tile scramble clusters. You'll see two similar -but different- tile image maps feeding into a blender controlled by the B&W scrambler spot map. Where the spot map is black you see viny stone; where the spot map is white you see mossy stone. And you never see a repeated tile.:geek:
Then that blender's output goes to another blender which overlays the stony texture onto the default (RGB map black) grassy texture; that blender is controlled by the Red component of the RGB discriminator map.


Now imagine another pink box cluster for each of the RGB colors, controlled by its own component node from the same RGB discriminator map.
Finally, there is pink box cluster for the underlying default material -grass & violets- and the output of that last blender of that last cluster is your finished texture.

It looks terrible, but it's just Legos snapped together.:p Just multiples of the pink-boxed cluster you see above, with more clusters for stone bump and grass/violet displacement. Sure, it's a mess, but it's modular, just multiple cluster assemblies.
 

Pendraia

Sage
Contributing Artist
Cool info...I've used alphas on the mix brick in ShaderMixer in a similar fashion just not on landscapes. It would be interesting to try it and see how it goes.
 
D

Deleted member 325

Guest
I get what your saying...and it's great. I often lose track of what I am doing when building complex shader nodes though (I have some great materials I made way back.... and I want to cut parts of them out to use on others, but when I look at them now it's all gobbledygook to me).

The RGB discriminators is a fantastic idea in and of itself (I have been working with complex layers of alpha matte's, but this might let me combine a few layers and simplify some materials). You also seem to have a great formula/method of keeping the materials organized as you build them - have you written any tutorials about that, or would you consider writing any? I know a lot of us out here in Poserdom could benefit from such a tutorial (not just what different nodes do, or neat tricks using a node, but keeping large and complex material setups organized as you build them).
 

seachnasaigh

Energetic
More Poser material room tricks - running waterfall:

It uses a series of sequentially numbered JPEGs in the movie node to drive displacement, making water ripples in the stream. For the waterfall part, both displacement and transparency are controlled by JPEGs in the movie node. Seamlessly looped.

It's dark (-ish) because it's twilight in the scene. Some of the test renders were focused on the cottage's lamps (animated lightcasting flames), and I wanted it dark enough to evaluate how effective the lamps were. This waterfall is beside the cottage in the Eldar house enviro playset. You need P9 (with SR 3.1) or later to use JPEGs in the movie node. Eldar house is free, in my ShareCG album.
 

seachnasaigh

Energetic
Ooops. Correction: The stream and the pool ripples use JPEGs in the movie node, but the waterfall and the splash use a single JPEG - a matrix in an image map node, manipulated by math nodes (it works like a flip book).
 

Seliah (Childe of Fyre)

Running with the wolves.
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I wonder if some lovely person could copy Seachnasaigh's posts into one of the software discussions threads so we can find it easier later? It looks like some really good info :)

Consider the messages consolidated for future reference and benefit. :) Some were moved, a couple were just copied over.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Good idea to consolidate them Seliah. This is definitely an interesting topic by itself.
 
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