Official Announcement: HiveWire 3D to publish Animals through DAZ 3D

[NapalmArsenal]

Please note - I have altered a few posts and deleted a few (notifying those people) that I have done so to remove the name of the person(s) to whom they were referring. I didn't feel it was appropriate to call out people by name because they don't like a product. Laurie, you are perfectly entitled to have and express your opinion, here or elsewhere. You were not nasty about it at all and we're delighted you love Harry .

Who knows, maybe some render someone posts will change your mind about Little Kitty

Thanks! and sorry!

 

[Alisa]

No worries, NA!

thnks for the info on move of animals may i ask a question will the beta testers still test the animals thts made bfore going over to daz

Yes . HW products will go through a lot of testing - our beta and QAV teams, then the QA folks at DAZ . I hope and anticipate that they'll have very little to do after we do what we all do !

On a slightly less positive note I am saddened to see that for some, this change means the Hivewire animals are now lost to them. I personally don't fell as strongly but I do have some empathy for them, particularly as I regard them as fellow members of the Hive family.

As do we. We understand some people have strong feelings about this, and respect their decisions, saddened though we are by some of them. We hope they'll continue to support HiveWire where they feel comfortable in doing so.

 

[Janet]

I hope and anticipate that they'll have very little to do after we do what we all do !

I'm sure this will be the case. You are very good at your job Alisa!

 

[AllenArt]

Hey no worries! We are all entitled to our opinions! I hope I haven't up turned the apple cart! =)
Love your art btw and am a huge fan!! As I hope you well know!

Nah, you haven't...lol. I actually rather liked your renders of the fantastical kitties with the long ears and wings....lol.

I really didn't mean to start a big stink, but it's nice to see ppl still read my posts LMAO

FWIW, I'm hoping that Chris, Lisa and the rest of the HW team are "positive but cautious" in their dealings with Daz. Not because I distrust Daz so much but because most companies that run competing businesses aren't always trustworthy. LOL But I'm sure you guys know all that and have weighed it and can pull your products back here any time you smell anything rotten . Contrary to what some might think, I hate to see competing stores disappear like they've been doing lately. We need competition and we need Poser products for those that just can't stand DS for whatever their personal reasons. If anyone is super upset I think it's because of all the store closings lately. It's a real fear and it's making people nervous. I can't say that I blame them.

I wish you guys the best of luck and that this is mutually beneficial for all parties.

Laurie

 

[Hornet3d]

I find it often backfires on you when you don't express your reservations or fears. While I understand that it can upset other people who for whatever reasons don't want to hear the doubts of others, those reservations and fears don't just go away. Instead they tend to fester and get worse.

Granted, it can be a fine line between expressing reservations and fears and appearing to be totally focused on them or unable to move forward from them. But, then too ... unless we're in the other person's head, it's kinda difficult to determine that they aren't moving forward.

It's important for Chris and co to know what we feel as HiveWire customers. It allows them to address our concerns. In my opinion, voting with my wallet is a step taken AFTER I've expressed my concerns to a company and after said company has been given a chance to address (or ignore) my concerns. My concerns were dismissed, minimized, and invalidated on the DAZ forums, both by other members and by DAZ staff. So ... I voted with my wallet, and DAZ lost my business.

I'd far rather see people express their reservations ... even to the point where it seems they are dwelling on the negative. As long as they are basing these concerns and reservations on their own experiences.

What irritates me is when someone dismisses the work of someone else ... purely on the word of someone else. That's been a problem HiveWire has had to deal with since before Dawn was even released.

I don't think I have objected to anything here, I have disagreed with quite a bit but that is a very different thing.

I agree with you that getting concerns and fears out in the open is better than letting them fester. A lot of the concerns here are based on peoples fears, they may well be misplaced but it should not be forgotten that their feelings themselves are fact at this moment, even if not born out in future.

The position we have here is a 'done deal' so we have to try and be positive about it but I would say it seems to have stirred up a Hornet's nest at the moment and that does not sound very healthy in a bee hive.

I would also admit to feeling slightly restricted here which has nothing to do with the case in hand except my experience, normally I would be far more supportive of the move and the team. Problem is I was very supportive of Renderosity when they proposed changes to their Prime club some time ago. There were and lot of predictors of doom but I continued to support the Rendo team. I can honestly say now the prophets of doom were right and I was totally wrong. Hivewire is a very different team but once you have been made a total fool of by any group you tend to temper you support in the future.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

As someone who has also lived with house cats for years (like 60+ years), I am curious as to whether you can identify what you find "off" about the HiveWire House Cat? I realize it may not be something you can actually point to, since I've also sometimes found a product can look "off" to me, yet I can't point to exactly what it is.

More often though, it's been a posing issue rather than a mesh issue. After all, some people are able to work miracles with even the worst mesh :wink: You know ... like Ken1171 who is an absolute wizard when it comes to Dawn and is able to get results no mere mortal person can. Um ... sorry about that Ken.

One thing to keep in mind with the HiveWire figures (human and animal) is that they have body parts that some aren't used to having in a 3D figure. I've found people who ignore those body parts end up with poses/renders that look just a wee bit (or more) unnatural. Makes me wonder if some of those "unworkable" opinions were the result of people ignoring the extra body parts.


I had to do a google search on ymmv since I had no clue just what the heck that meant. I'd never have guessed it meant "your mileage might vary." Probably because I'd expect that on a forum that dealt with cars

I said that, as someone who has had housecats all my life, I find something to be "off" about the HW housecat and never bought it, but that I LOVE Harry the horse.

If that's badmouthing, than so be it, ymmv I guess . I didn't realize I was being so harsh.

Laurie

 

[Alisa]

After all, some people are able to work miracles with even the worst mesh :wink: You know ... like Ken1171 who is an absolute wizard when it comes to Dawn and is able to get results no mere mortal person can. Um ... sorry about that Ken.

LOL! Yeah, that had me laughing reading your post, Ken.

I had to do a google search on ymmv since I had no clue just what the heck that meant. I'd never have guessed it meant "your mileage might vary." Probably because I'd expect that on a forum that dealt with cars

That's funny . It is (or used to be at least, not sure if the same goes now), a pretty common acronym, though it made me pause a minute, too!

I'm sure this will be the case. You are very good at your job Alisa!

Aww, thanks

 

[Hornet3d]

Nah, you haven't...lol. I actually rather liked your renders of the fantastical kitties with the long ears and wings....lol.

I really didn't mean to start a big stink, but it's nice to see ppl still read my posts LMAO

FWIW, I'm hoping that Chris, Lisa and the rest of the HW team are "positive but cautious" in their dealings with Daz. Not because I distrust Daz so much but because most companies that run competing businesses aren't always trustworthy. LOL But I'm sure you guys know all that and have weighed it and can pull your products back here any time you smell anything rotten . Contrary to what some might think, I hate to see competing stores disappear like they've been doing lately. We need competition and we need Poser products for those that just can't stand DS for whatever their personal reasons. If anyone is super upset I think it's because of all the store closings lately. It's a real fear and it's making people nervous. I can't say that I blame them.

I wish you guys the best of luck and that this is mutually beneficial for all parties.

Laurie

Well it is only my opinion but I think that is a fair appraisal of at least my situation. It certainly fits my experience, I don't shop at Daz very often due to the lack of Poser products, I can't shop at RDNA as it ain't there anymore and I don't shop at Renderosity because my credit card company is feed up with my card information being leaked. So you right the disappearance of store has been a concern for me and only the arrival of Hivewire kept me in 3D art as a hobby.

Too right it makes me fearful and nervous.

 

[AllenArt]

As someone who has also lived with house cats for years (like 60+ years), I am curious as to whether you can identify what you find "off" about the HiveWire House Cat? I realize it may not be something you can actually point to, since I've also sometimes found a product can look "off" to me, yet I can't point to exactly what it is.

The ears don't seem to be set right to me and are too rounded, the head isn't round enough (although for some breeds that's perfectly acceptable) and the paws seem too large. I also feel there isn't enough fullness in the back end, especially when sitting, but that's darn hard to do I would think . Cats are a complicated mixture of muscle and fat. LOL.

More often though, it's been a posing issue rather than a mesh issue. After all, some people are able to work miracles with even the worst mesh :wink: You know ... like Ken1171 who is an absolute wizard when it comes to Dawn and is able to get results no mere mortal person can. Um ... sorry about that Ken.

I sooooo wish I had more magic with figures than I do currently. Glitterati3D tried to teach me how to rig in Poser awhile back and it just didn't take - I wish it had. There's tons of stuff I'd love to be able to do

I had to do a google search on ymmv since I had no clue just what the heck that meant. I'd never have guessed it meant "your mileage might vary." Probably because I'd expect that on a forum that dealt with cars

LOL..sorry. Sometimes I forget not everyone knows all the internet lingo. Including me! LOL. I still have to look things up too .

Laurie

 

[Pendraia]

Just woke up to find all these extra pages... missed a lot by going to bed.
I haven't said much so far as I'm still working or how I feel about it. It certainly was a surprise to find out.

On a positive note unless things have changed at the forum wouldn't it be possible to put a link to hivewire in your signatures?

 

[Ken1171]

I want them to go check out my gallery and tell me I'm some kind of Poser wizard, because I'm certainly not.

Truth is, what I do with Dawn is a continuation of what I was already doing with V4. Once she was officially retired, I started to stretch her capabilities to the limit, but she breaks too easily thanks to the legacy rigging. I could go WAAAY beyond these limits when I switched to Dawn, and I have never looked back ever since. I just wish other people would give her a fair trial instead of 2nd hand prejudice. All the energy spent on legacy V4 is a waste compared to what they could be doing with DAWN! All they have to do is TRY. Thanks to HW initiative, more people will be doing that at Rosity - and they are up to a surprise. Dawn is a VERY capable figure. Just look at all the crazy stuff I have done with her, and she survived. V4 breaks at 10% of that.

I have heard comments like "I wish I had a figure like Genesis in Poser", while dismissing Dawn by thinking she is like old V4. The misinformation concerning HW figures is quite widespread. With HW reaching out to DAZ, maybe this could be an opportunity for things to change. When people see how wonderful these animals are, why would they believe the human figures would be as bad as people claim? Not to mention DAZ will not be able to badmouth HW while the deal is up. That alone would be good enough for a break. Let's see how it plays out.

LOL! Yeah, that had me laughing reading your post, Ken.

People who have been brainwashed with 2nd hand misinformation can go to great extends to justify themselves for not trying HW figures. The "guru" theory was the most recent from the bunch. So I guess I am a guru now. I should start levitating at any moment.

only the arrival of Hivewire kept me in 3D art as a hobby.

Amen to that. Happened to me too. I love the guys who run this place, so I REALLY wish this odd deal will work out. HW really needs the extra boost.

 

[FairyFantastic]

Yes . HW products will go through a lot of testing - our beta and QAV teams, then the QA folks at DAZ . I hope and anticipate that they'll have very little to do after we do what we all do !

thnks for the reply alisax

 

[Satira Capriccio]

I found that Poser Pro 11 was a life saver for rigging in Poser! I'd been using Poser Pro 2014 and struggling with rigging until Glitter suggested using Poser Pro 11. Oh, what a difference that has made. Not that I'm at all comfortable yet with rigging. Dynamic clothing is ever so much easier to create!!!

What's really scary is that I had very little problems rigging the conforming clothing in Sweete Reyn. So, I totally expect HiveWire QAV (not QAM) to have all kinds of issues when they test!


Cats really are rather unique. Not that dogs aren't also. But my Tsuki has bigger paws than any of my other cats have had. They are also pointed, which apparently means she has some Oriental breed in her ancestry. Chris included morphs to make the ears more pointed, though I don't remember whether there is also a morph to make the head more rounded. I think there are also paw sizing morphs. But since I have a render going, I can't load up the cat and look. If not, body part sizing works fabulously on the HiveWire House Cat just as on the HiveWire Horse.

With Cat Stephens, I went the other way, with making the head narrower and the ears more pointed. I was aiming for a bit of a fae cat type look.

 

[eclark1894]

Okay, I still wish Hivewire the best, and will continue to shop here. I'm dying for a Dawn 2.0. But I'm not going to lie here, the exclusivity thing bothers me greatly. Somehow it seems counterintuitive. On one hand you move your animals products to DAZ for more exposure, BUT not everyone who uses Poser shops at DAZ, or wants to. Meanwhile DAZ insist that you abbreviate your name, ostensibly to hide who you really are, and thus mitigating any extra exposure you do get. I'm not seeing how 1 takeaway two is a positive gain here.

 

[Ken1171]

@eclark1894 My concerns were the same. Having the brand name changed makes me wonder about the intentions behind this deal. On the other hand, it would look bad for them to now have exclusivity deals on HW products after all that was said and done - that would look bad for them if HW didn't change their name. LOL

 

[daywalker03]

Truth is, what I do with Dawn is a continuation of what I was already doing with V4. Once she was officially retired, I started to stretch her capabilities to the limit, but she breaks too easily thanks to the legacy rigging. I could go WAAAY beyond these limits when I switched to Dawn, and I have never looked back ever since. I just wish other people would give her a fair trial instead of 2nd hand prejudice. All the energy spent on legacy V4 is a waste compared to what they could be doing with DAWN! All they have to do is TRY. Thanks to HW initiative, more people will be doing that at Rosity - and they are up to a surprise. Dawn is a VERY capable figure. Just look at all the crazy stuff I have done with her, and she survived. V4 breaks at 10% of that.

I have heard comments like "I wish I had a figure like Genesis in Poser", while dismissing Dawn by thinking she is like old V4. The misinformation concerning HW figures is quite widespread. With HW reaching out to DAZ, maybe this could be an opportunity for things to change. When people see how wonderful these animals are, why would they believe the human figures would be as bad as people claim? Not to mention DAZ will not be able to badmouth HW while the deal is up. That alone would be good enough for a break. Let's see how it plays out.



People who have been brainwashed with 2nd hand misinformation can go to great extends to justify themselves for not trying HW figures. The "guru" theory was the most recent from the bunch. So I guess I am a guru now. I should start levitating at any moment.



Amen to that. Happened to me too. I love the guys who run this place, so I REALLY wish this odd deal will work out. HW really needs the extra boost.

Ken, my biggest gripe about Dawn and Dusk is the somewhat odd (to me) placement of all morphs under the body, rather than by body section like the other figures. It's also a bit harder to work with because the mesh is denser than Genesis, at base resolution, but I think I can adapt to that.

 

[Willowisp]

I have heard comments like "I wish I had a figure like Genesis in Poser", while dismissing Dawn by thinking she is like old V4. The misinformation concerning HW figures is quite widespread.

I've even seen people state that Dawn is DS only and won't work in Poser. When asked where they got that from, they just shrug and say they 'heard it somewhere'.. This always puzzles me

 

[PaxAsteriae]

Thanks for the heads-up (and to my friend for pointing me this way), I've just bought the housecat and kitten before they're lost to me forever.

I've got a bad feeling about this, personally. I'll have faith in you guys, as ever, but I saw what happened to the last people who put any sort of trust in that company and I don't want to see it happen here too.

(I also lost my login for the forums so... I'm not new, I've just not bought anything in forever...)

 

[Satira Capriccio]

Oh gosh! I LOVE having all the morphs under the body. It did take a bit of getting used to, what with years of using V4. But, I find it is SO much easier and quicker to run through the figure and change morphs. It was always a pain to have to select a body part and then find the dial I wanted. Selecting body parts became easier once I started using the Hierarchy panel, but I still prefer working off the figure body.

I also like the denser mesh. But then ... one of the first things I often do is to switch to Poser Unimesh and set SubD to 1.

Of course, my experience with Genesis is limited to attempting to use Genesis 1 with DSON in Poser. Not something that was ever a pleasant experience. Especially, when DSON would break my library. That was annoying to say the least ... and a bit of a game breaker.

Ken, my biggest gripe about Dawn and Dusk is the somewhat odd (to me) placement of all morphs under the body, rather than by body section like the other figures. It's also a bit harder to work with because the mesh is denser than Genesis, at base resolution, but I think I can adapt to that.

 

[Ken1171]

Ken, my biggest gripe about Dawn and Dusk is the somewhat odd (to me) placement of all morphs under the body, rather than by body section like the other figures. It's also a bit harder to work with because the mesh is denser than Genesis, at base resolution, but I think I can adapt to that.

I think the dial organization in HW figures tries to mimic the way things work in DS, which is quite odd for unsuspecting Poser users. Chances are that the original Dawn was first a DS figure before the Poser version came out. That's why the dials come like that. In my most recent products, I started to adopt that method, in case I make a DS version, or just to keep things consistent.

As for the mesh density, you might notice how DAZ is making their newer figures leaner in every release, as well as an extreme topology simplification like it is with Genesis 3 and 8. Everything indicates these changes are meant to cater for the gaming industry, to the detriment of the Poser/DS community. Genesis 2 was the last of their figures to ship with excellent topology that supports muscle shapes at edge level. After that we have seen lower poly meshes with simplified topology, in addition to dual quaternion rigging that trashed TriAx in favor of tons of correction JCM morphs. All this to the detriment of the Poser/DS community, since these features are meant for game engines, and definitely not for us.

Coming from that, I think Dawn sits in the middle in mesh density - not too much nor too little. There wasn't a morph I couldn't do with her, while I can't say the same about the newer low-poly Genesis. DAZ recommends HD morphs as a way to compensate, but again, it's to compensate for being a low-poly figure. I don't have that problem with Dawn.

I've even seen people state that Dawn is DS only and won't work in Poser. When asked where they got that from, they just shrug and say they 'heard it somewhere'.. This always puzzles me

Exactly. Having products now extended to Rosity (Dawn) and DAZ (HW animals) may remove the vail of misinformation, which is a good thing. People won't know until they try it on their own.