(Poser) Parenting Advice

[3WC]

I am getting some weird results when using different parenting scenarios in Poser (I am using Poser 9, not pro).

I have a conforming clothing item with body parts that match Dawn, but it also has some extra bones for buckles and some things that need to remain completely rigid at all times.

Then I have a figure that is basically a personal glider that attaches to one of the extra bones/groups on the back of the conforming item (Look at my WIP thread if you want to actually see this; Star Storm harness and glider for Dawn).

Anyway, I thought the best way to do this is to parent the glider to the Back Medallion on the harness. Loading it into Poser and parenting it manually does exactly what I want. Choose the glider body, go to the Figure drop-down menu, select parent figure to... and choose the Back Medallion in the list. The glider follows when Dawn is posed, rotated, etc.

But I wanted to automate this process to make it easier for the user. I hit upon what I thought was a simple solution. By just putting the line, "smartparent BackMedallion:3" in the BODY actor of the glider cr2, it will smart parent automatically on load. However, that led to an unanticipated problem. I have dials in the BODY of the glider that control some bone movements and morphs; these disappear when smart parented to the harness. The dials actually now show up in the harness BODY group, so are kind of hard to find.

So then I made a script to load all the items and conform or parent to the appropriate item. I thought by using "glider.SetParentActor("BackMedallion")" I would be all set. But the glider is parented, but it isn't. It won't move or pose with everything else, but it is also impossible to select the glider without selecting it as a body part of the harness. So, all of the problems of parenting without any of the actual desired results of parenting? Why?

I even spent some time trying to make the glider a conforming item, adding bones back to the hip. I set origin, end, and orientation exactly the same as the harness (and Dawn), but for some reason every time the glider is conformed, it realigns itself to who-knows-what and comes in at an odd angle. I looked at every single body part trying to find the problem, but failed.

So after about a week I feel like I have come full circle and am back where I started. The suggestion I got is to just add info icons to tell the user what to parent to, which may be the easiest solution. But the frustrated perfectionist in me wants to make this work. *Sigh*

It may be less stress to actually be a parent.

 

[English Bob]

To the best of my knowledge, smart parenting only works with props. Poser wasn't designed to smart parent figures. Any figures I've seen which are supposed to be parented come with instructions on how to do it. If there is a way round this, I'd like to know, since I have things that would work a lot more easily if it was possible.

 

[Gadget Girl]

So then I made a script to load all the items and conform or parent to the appropriate item. I thought by using "glider.SetParentActor("BackMedallion")" I would be all set. But the glider is parented, but it isn't. It won't move or pose with everything else, but it is also impossible to select the glider without selecting it as a body part of the harness. So, all of the problems of parenting without any of the actual desired results of parenting? Why?

I fell like your script should work. I assume glider is a variable for the figure of the glider. You might try instead choosing the hip bone of the glider and then using SetParent(parent, bends, realign), which is what you use to parent one actor to another as opposed to parenting a figure to an actor with is what SetParentActor(parent) does.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[kobaltkween]

To the best of my knowledge, smart parenting only works with props. Poser wasn't designed to smart parent figures. Any figures I've seen which are supposed to be parented come with instructions on how to do it. If there is a way round this, I'd like to know, since I have things that would work a lot more easily if it was possible.

You can smart parent figures. SAV's universal hair "props" are often figures parented to a head. A few versions back, I believe I had some wonkiness with parented figures when I tried to delete them or some such, but it's been ages since I had a problem. I _love_ using SAV's hair on Dawn precisely because I don't have to worry about conforming problems.

 

[3WC]

I am revisiting this, as I thought it could fix some problems. But am stumped with Poser 9.

I regrouped my glider so it would be a conforming item, so rigged it from BODY; hip; abdomen; abdomen2; chest; chest2; and then from there the glider parts start. All my origins, endpoints, and orientations are exactly the same for all bones from Body to chest2. However, I get the results shown in the picture. When not conformed or parented to anything, the glider is where I want it. That is the zero position. But when I conform it, the orientation changes. I have examined everything I know of to try to fix this, but have failed. Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[Glitterati3D]

Poser users are accustomed to parenting items. Your glider should be a smart prop and you should include instructions in the ReadMe how to parent it. However, if you Smart Parent it in the pp2, it will load smart parented to the harness as long as the harness is loaded.

Anything else is a waste of your time and effort. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe Poser users need this kind of babysitting and you are needlessly putting yourself through agony.

 

[3WC]

Lol, well, it's been agony either way. Problem is, the glider is not a pp2, it is a figure cr2, so smart parenting caused a few problems also. When smart parenting, my morphs and controls for the glider would disappear and you would have to go hunting for them in the harness, which it was parented to.

 

[Glitterati3D]

That's what I am saying, though.......it should be a smart prop.

You don't need the glider to be a figure - it is not going to bend and move except as it would when attached to the figure's back. It's a PROP.

Since you don't need any part of the glider to move separately, there is absolutely no reason for it to be a figure.

 

[3WC]

EVERY part of the glider moves separately. The wings move, there are fan blades that rotate, and fan covers that iris open with dial controls. Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?
Though, even as a figure, it seems to work fine parented instead of conformed. I just don't think I can smart parent it.

 

[Glitterati3D]

EVERY part of the glider moves separately. The wings move, there are fan blades that rotate, and fan covers that iris open with dial controls. Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?
Though, even as a figure, it seems to work fine parented instead of conformed. I just don't think I can smart parent it.

No, I mean bend like a piece of clothing does WITH the figure bones. A prop can having moving parts. But the skin of the glider is not going to fit over Dawn like a piece of clothing and need to bend with her arms, legs, neck, etc.

In fact, you want the complete opposite of a conformer.

 

[3WC]

Ok, I see. I guess this just shows my lack of understanding of Poser.

Is there an easy way to convert a cr2 to a prop? Just load it up and resave as a pp2?

 

[Glitterati3D]

Ok, I see. I guess this just shows my lack of understanding of Poser.

Is there an easy way to convert a cr2 to a prop? Just load it up and resave as a pp2?

Yes, just load the object file into your scene, parent it and then save in the Props folder.

Because it is parented, Poser will prompt you to save it as a smart prop - just click yes.

You will have to change the pp2 file in a text editor and point it to the object file in your geometries folder after it is saved. (Or use Netherworks Toybox to re-point it)

 

[3WC]

But can the morphs and control dials be saved, or does that all have to be redone?

 

[Glitterati3D]

But can the morphs and control dials be saved, or does that all have to be redone?

Actually, I think you can just change the .cr2 file spec to a .pp2

I will have to do a little research.........give me a few minutes.

Creating Posable Props:

Once you've completed a Pprop, and saved it as a cr2, change it's extension to pp2 and move it into the Runtime:library: props subdirectory. Doing this helps you to avoid the accidentally replacing the current figure with a Pprop, among other things. The Pprop will be just as posable as it was before, and you will probably have more success parenting it to a figure.
Fantasy3D Poser Tips and Tricks

Be sure to save a copy of your original file first.

 

[Glitterati3D]

Maybe @English Bob can step in here with some suggestions? Or correct me?

 

[3WC]

Awesomeness. I will try it.

 

[English Bob]

Maybe @English Bob can step in here with some suggestions? Or correct me?

Oh boy. Is there a :RabbitInTheHeadlights: emoticon?

There is more than one way of achieving this. It will depend on whether @3wComics intends this to be a commercial product that he's going to have to support afterwards.

1. Rig the glider as a genuine conformer, going back to the base of the target figure's hierarchy. Users are familiar with this approach, and we know that additional actors can work, because many hair and clothing items have body handles which are just this. However the result can only work with one figure; maybe not a problem here because there's other clothing as part of the set.
2. Rig the glider as a stand-alone figure, and parent it by one or another means. Users may be confused, and it may cause unexpected side effects. It can be parented to any figure.
3. Assemble the glider as a group of parented props. These can still be smart-propped to any figure with a little hacking. However it's easy for a user to break a complex parenting hierarchy with the slip of a mouse and be unsure how to put it back the way it was. Features such as ERC, EasyPose and propagating scales may or may not be achievable with dependent parameters if they're required.

To the best of my knowledge, renaming a CR2 as a PP2 won't confer any advantage. It will still be a figure as far as Poser is concerned, and parenting will be subject to the same problems.

@3wComics has chosen option 1 - why doesn't it work? The question I always ask first is this: if you import the glider OBJ without any scaling or positioning (in Poser 9 I think this is with all the boxes unchecked), does it appear in the right place against a totally zeroed figure? If it doesn't, you can't make a conformer out of it.

 

[Glitterati3D]

No, as a conformer it does not parent at all. I know this only because I tested this set for @3wComics

The glider parents where 3w wants it to parent only as a prop. It could be because the parent is a ghost bone (one of the medallions in the strap conformer).

I think the problem really comes in because......The suit conforms to Dawn, the straps conform to the suit and then he's trying to parent the glider to a ghost bone in the straps.

(Converting the CR2 to a pp2 was to preserve the rigging already done on moving parts of the glider.)

You have just done more of the prop manipulation than I have which is why I thought your input would be more helpful. Most of the rigging work I do is with conformers.

This is what happens when you try to load as a parented conformer.

And, when I convert to a prop and parent to the appropriate ghost bone.

 

[3WC]

It actually seems to work well with it just renamed as a pp2. Some of the weird parenting problems I had before went away.

The pictures I posted here (Poser) Parenting Advice show the glider at zero position, which is where I want it, and then going weird when conformed.

 

[3WC]

I may have spoken too soon. I can rename the cr2 to pp2, it loads and parents fine, but there still seems no way to smart parent it. In fact, poser won't even let me save the renamed pp2 into the library, as it apparently doesn't recognize it as a prop.

I may be back to #2 on English Bob's list, just using the readme and info icons to try and walk users through the parenting process. *sigh*