daywalker03
Eager
She said it doesn't look right to her, which is an opinion that you're free to disagree with. I don't own it as yet, so I don't know if it's really as bad as she seems to think.
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Official Announcement: HiveWire 3D to publish Animals through DAZ 3D
- Thread starter Chris
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She said it doesn't look right to her, which is an opinion that you're free to disagree with. I don't own it as yet, so I don't know if it's really as bad as she seems to think.
Glitterati3D
Dances with Bees
And, on that note, I am leaving this thread. I wish everyone luck with the move.
I already showed her a solution to her problems with the HW cat over there!
That's not the case, this gives HiveWire and its CA access to a larger market, I think of it more as a way to growth for HiveWire and its CA's. More trade will mean more sales for the CAs and that hopefully will keep them wanting to remain here.
All this took me by surprise, and it took me a while to read everything before I could get situated. To say that this is controversial is an ultimate understatement, especially when the company name has to be abbreviated, with hopes people will not recognize it. It's true that even I have often abbreviated to HW3D everywhere, but what concerns me is the intention of such requirement - definitely not a good sign. It might imply they want to minimize traffic to this store as much as possible.
Maybe it makes sense that DAZ doesn't want HiveWire3D spelled out as a brand behind all these high quality animals. That would conflict with everything they have been claiming about this store, their products, and the people behind it - especially when they want to sell these animals with exclusivity rights. That would put them in a strange situation, so yeah, the brand needs to be disguised.
But perhaps the real shocker is to give DAZ exclusive rights to sell the products, which together with the disguised brand name, it makes this a really odd deal. I perfectly understand the reasons behind all this from both sides, though. Personally, animals are not high in my priorities, so this doesn't affect me much. However, by total coincidence, I am in a joint project that involves indirectly supporting an upcoming HW animal, so I will have to rethink that. The product would be for Dawn, but people who buy at DAZ are looking for Genesis, so this might not work out in the end. We wanted the product to be related, but now I think it doesn't have to. I will have to discuss this with the team.
And the reason is quite simple - these people at DAZ were convinced that "Dawn is unusable". They don't have to try - the already "know" it. That's why they don't come here - it's not like they don't know HW exists. After supporting Poser and DS in most of my products for years, I came to meet many of these people, and they only let me speak because I support DAZ Studio. But the damage has been done - there was no convincing them otherwise, and I tried. Seeing is believing, right? I have shown them my Dawn gallery, and they claim I have some kind of special skills that "normal" people don't have, so if I show them hundreds of beautiful Dawn renders in a wide variety of styles, it's just me - other "normal" people can't do it. In their minds, only wizards and gurus can make good Dawn renders, because she (and all HW figures) are "unworkable" (they use that word a lot).
Coming from this personal experience, it's hard for me to deal with DAZ as just another company, because their smearing campaign has been affecting my store sales ever since HW has opened doors back in 2013. It has affected me both personally and professionally.
Even though I have reservations, I will give this the benefit of doubt. I hope it will work out of everyone involved. This is business, so we do what we need to do.
Maybe it makes sense that DAZ doesn't want HiveWire3D spelled out as a brand behind all these high quality animals. That would conflict with everything they have been claiming about this store, their products, and the people behind it - especially when they want to sell these animals with exclusivity rights. That would put them in a strange situation, so yeah, the brand needs to be disguised.
But perhaps the real shocker is to give DAZ exclusive rights to sell the products, which together with the disguised brand name, it makes this a really odd deal. I perfectly understand the reasons behind all this from both sides, though. Personally, animals are not high in my priorities, so this doesn't affect me much. However, by total coincidence, I am in a joint project that involves indirectly supporting an upcoming HW animal, so I will have to rethink that. The product would be for Dawn, but people who buy at DAZ are looking for Genesis, so this might not work out in the end. We wanted the product to be related, but now I think it doesn't have to. I will have to discuss this with the team.
And the reason is quite simple - these people at DAZ were convinced that "Dawn is unusable". They don't have to try - the already "know" it. That's why they don't come here - it's not like they don't know HW exists. After supporting Poser and DS in most of my products for years, I came to meet many of these people, and they only let me speak because I support DAZ Studio. But the damage has been done - there was no convincing them otherwise, and I tried. Seeing is believing, right? I have shown them my Dawn gallery, and they claim I have some kind of special skills that "normal" people don't have, so if I show them hundreds of beautiful Dawn renders in a wide variety of styles, it's just me - other "normal" people can't do it. In their minds, only wizards and gurus can make good Dawn renders, because she (and all HW figures) are "unworkable" (they use that word a lot).
Coming from this personal experience, it's hard for me to deal with DAZ as just another company, because their smearing campaign has been affecting my store sales ever since HW has opened doors back in 2013. It has affected me both personally and professionally.
Even though I have reservations, I will give this the benefit of doubt. I hope it will work out of everyone involved. This is business, so we do what we need to do.
Yes, someone stated the HiveWire Housecat doesn't look right to her. Now of course, as a person who has also lived with house cats all MY life, I rather disagree with her assessment of the HiveWire Housecat. It's the Millennium Cat that to me looks massively "off." Yet the Mil Cat is acceptable to her.
Maybe it's actually the lack of fur that makes the HiveWire House Cat look "off" to her since she's hiding the mesh with LAMH fur? Then too, since she also states she didn't buy the HiveWire House Cat, she's never given it a chance to perform, but based her opinion on the renders others have done.
But, at least she loves Harry. But then ... who can't! Harry is absolutely spectacular!
Maybe it's actually the lack of fur that makes the HiveWire House Cat look "off" to her since she's hiding the mesh with LAMH fur? Then too, since she also states she didn't buy the HiveWire House Cat, she's never given it a chance to perform, but based her opinion on the renders others have done.
But, at least she loves Harry. But then ... who can't! Harry is absolutely spectacular!
It occurs t me to wonder whether DAZ has any way of tracking what versions of products get downloaded from the individual accounts' product libraries. I know that I typically download both the Poser and Studio versions of anything that comes with both (although I don't bother with Poser companion files on characters and outfits). But then, so far most of the things that still come with both are props and sets, and frankly, I'm far more used to looking in my Poser content lists to find those.
But a weight mapped figure is only really usable in one or the other program. If there is any way of tracking which version actually gets downloaded -- and in which proportions -- it might serve as some kind of a gauge on just how much Poser interest is still hanging on.
But a weight mapped figure is only really usable in one or the other program. If there is any way of tracking which version actually gets downloaded -- and in which proportions -- it might serve as some kind of a gauge on just how much Poser interest is still hanging on.
FairyFantastic
Awesome
thnks for the info on move of animals may i ask a question will the beta testers still test the animals thts made bfore going over to daz
Well then, I wonder if they'd think I'm some kind of wizard, as my take on Dawn as "Ninja Sora" won top Poser Pick of the Week back in March at Renderosity, during the same week my render of Dusk "Strolling The Beach" also won.
Trust me, I'm no wizard. I often have a lucky day and put together something that folks really like, but I can tell you there are plenty of renders I've done over the years which are "nice" but not outstanding. After 17 years as a member at Renderosity, that's the first time any of the 5 pages of images in my gallery there has been picked. Granted, I've learned a lot in the past 17 years, and not all the renders were created with Poser or DAZ Studio, but there's plenty just on that first page which are renders of Dawn in one character form or another. I want them to go check out my gallery and tell me I'm some kind of Poser wizard, because I'm certainly not.
OK B, cool down. Take a deep breath. Enough blowing off steam.
daywalker03
Eager
Beta testing should always be done, no matter which store an item is being submitted to.
Daywalker, as a relative beginner at creating poses, I found both morphing the HiveWire House Cat to create Cat Stephens ... as well as creating the poses for the accompanying pose set ... to be extremely easy. The only pose that gave me trouble was one I didn't include ... which is the main product image for The Gardener Stephen and Cat Stephens where Stephen is cuddling Cat Stephens. In that case, it wasn't the HiveWire House Cat that gave me grief, but Dusk. Getting his arms to actually wrap around a cat's body the way our arms do was rather beyond my abilities. But then too, my arms are much shorter than Dusk's. Well ... that is, if Dusk were actually human sized instead of Poser/DS sized :wink:
FYI ... I have found ALL HiveWire animals to be extremely easy to work with.
It's fabulous too that Chris listens to our feedback and incorporates it into his products. Tsuki (who is now 20 months old) held her tail curled over her back as a kitten. When I pointed that out to Chris, as well as included images of American Ringtail cats, he made the adjustments necessary to allow the HiveWire House Cat to do the same. American Ringtail Cats (as well as Tsuki) have a wider tail at the base and the base of that tail is a bit higher up the back than a typical cat.
In Tsuki's case, she held her tail like a flag pointed straight at the back of her head rather than curled like the cat in the video. The tip practically touched her head. As she's gotten older, she tends to carry it more like your typical cat, but when she's really, really content, back up over her back it goes.
FYI ... I have found ALL HiveWire animals to be extremely easy to work with.
It's fabulous too that Chris listens to our feedback and incorporates it into his products. Tsuki (who is now 20 months old) held her tail curled over her back as a kitten. When I pointed that out to Chris, as well as included images of American Ringtail cats, he made the adjustments necessary to allow the HiveWire House Cat to do the same. American Ringtail Cats (as well as Tsuki) have a wider tail at the base and the base of that tail is a bit higher up the back than a typical cat.
In Tsuki's case, she held her tail like a flag pointed straight at the back of her head rather than curled like the cat in the video. The tip practically touched her head. As she's gotten older, she tends to carry it more like your typical cat, but when she's really, really content, back up over her back it goes.
Desertsilver
Busy Bee
I have seen quite a few people who say they did not buy the Hivewire cats simply because they do not have the LAMH presets. It was nothing against the models- many of us just can't get lAMH to work well enough in studio to make our own-- crash crash crash... gives up....
I think that any PA who put out a nice set of those presets would sell them like crazy!
I really, really hope the move works out to Hivewire's benefit.
As one poster put it recently, 'Hivewire is the store with a heart'. And we don't want to loose you to a big, profit only driven company.
I would love to see some of Laurie's beautiful skins made to fit the Daz centaur models, but not if it keeps her from working on the deer, cattle, wolves, dogs...
Mythocentric
Extraordinary
I must admit that this announcement has come as something of a shock to me. I do not buy at Daz for the simple reason that their past and present corporate policies can be held largely responsible for the fragmentation and polarisation of the 3D market as it stands today (My opinion). To now find that "HiveWire will publish our existing and future original animals exclusively with DAZ, in both DAZ Studio AND Poser formats." is, as far as I'm concerned, a killer. I'm sure Chris and Lisa have the best of intentions for the Hive and while I will support the (non-animal) products and with the exception of Ken Gilliland's superb output, which remain here, I'm saddened to know that those animals I was so looking forward to are now a non-event as far as my Runtime is concerned. Regards.
AllenArt
Eager
Wow, I didn't realize that stating an opinion was badmouthing, so I'll repeat what I said here:
I said that, as someone who has had housecats all my life, I find something to be "off" about the HW housecat and never bought it, but that I LOVE Harry the horse.
If that's badmouthing, than so be it, ymmv I guess
. I didn't realize I was being so harsh.
Laurie
I said that, as someone who has had housecats all my life, I find something to be "off" about the HW housecat and never bought it, but that I LOVE Harry the horse.
If that's badmouthing, than so be it, ymmv I guess
. I didn't realize I was being so harsh.Laurie
Please note - I have altered a few posts and deleted a few (notifying those people) that I have done so to remove the name of the person(s) to whom they were referring. I didn't feel it was appropriate to call out people by name because they don't like a product. Laurie, you are perfectly entitled to have and express your opinion, here or elsewhere. You were not nasty about it at all and we're delighted you love Harry .
Who knows, maybe some render someone posts will change your mind about Little Kitty
.Who knows, maybe some render someone posts will change your mind about Little Kitty
I find it often backfires on you when you don't express your reservations or fears. While I understand that it can upset other people who for whatever reasons don't want to hear the doubts of others, those reservations and fears don't just go away. Instead they tend to fester and get worse.
Granted, it can be a fine line between expressing reservations and fears and appearing to be totally focused on them or unable to move forward from them. But, then too ... unless we're in the other person's head, it's kinda difficult to determine that they aren't moving forward.
It's important for Chris and co to know what we feel as HiveWire customers. It allows them to address our concerns. In my opinion, voting with my wallet is a step taken AFTER I've expressed my concerns to a company and after said company has been given a chance to address (or ignore) my concerns. My concerns were dismissed, minimized, and invalidated on the DAZ forums, both by other members and by DAZ staff. So ... I voted with my wallet, and DAZ lost my business.
I'd far rather see people express their reservations ... even to the point where it seems they are dwelling on the negative. As long as they are basing these concerns and reservations on their own experiences.
What irritates me is when someone dismisses the work of someone else ... purely on the word of someone else. That's been a problem HiveWire has had to deal with since before Dawn was even released.
Granted, it can be a fine line between expressing reservations and fears and appearing to be totally focused on them or unable to move forward from them. But, then too ... unless we're in the other person's head, it's kinda difficult to determine that they aren't moving forward.
It's important for Chris and co to know what we feel as HiveWire customers. It allows them to address our concerns. In my opinion, voting with my wallet is a step taken AFTER I've expressed my concerns to a company and after said company has been given a chance to address (or ignore) my concerns. My concerns were dismissed, minimized, and invalidated on the DAZ forums, both by other members and by DAZ staff. So ... I voted with my wallet, and DAZ lost my business.
I'd far rather see people express their reservations ... even to the point where it seems they are dwelling on the negative. As long as they are basing these concerns and reservations on their own experiences.
What irritates me is when someone dismisses the work of someone else ... purely on the word of someone else. That's been a problem HiveWire has had to deal with since before Dawn was even released.
Never been a fan of Daz3D myself, but I choose to be cautiously optimistic about this move. Dwelling on the negative will get us nowhere
Hey no worries! We are all entitled to our opinions! I hope I haven't up turned the apple cart! =)Wow, I didn't realize that stating an opinion was badmouthing, so I'll repeat what I said here:
I said that, as someone who has had housecats all my life, I find something to be "off" about the HW housecat and never bought it, but that I LOVE Harry the horse.
If that's badmouthing, than so be it, ymmv I guess
Laurie
Love your art btw and am a huge fan!! As I hope you well know!
Hornet3d
Wise
I am glad to see this is thread has now reached 8 pages and everyone is being adult about this, it is a credit to just how well Hivewire is run and I hope some of this will rub off on Daz.
On a slightly less positive note I am saddened to see that for some, this change means the Hivewire animals are now lost to them. I personally don't fell as strongly but I do have some empathy for them, particularly as I regard them as fellow members of the Hive family.
I keep coming back to it but I have the same feeling of foreboding as I did with the RDNA takeover, although I did feel very betrayed then and I do not feel that now. I am trying to be positive about this but I have the same thoughts running through my head as then and as far as I can see my worse fears were realised. I do desperately hope I am wrong this time around.
On a slightly less positive note I am saddened to see that for some, this change means the Hivewire animals are now lost to them. I personally don't fell as strongly but I do have some empathy for them, particularly as I regard them as fellow members of the Hive family.
I keep coming back to it but I have the same feeling of foreboding as I did with the RDNA takeover, although I did feel very betrayed then and I do not feel that now. I am trying to be positive about this but I have the same thoughts running through my head as then and as far as I can see my worse fears were realised. I do desperately hope I am wrong this time around.
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