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Dawn Clone in DS
- Thread starter Ken1171
- Start date
Sorry, let me explain it better. If you look at the picture, I have an item of Genesis clothing selected, and I am Auto-fitting it to Dawn. So it's not that Dawn has a clone for herself, but instead to convert contents for her. If you look at the list from the screenshot, there is a clone for Dusk and for BabyLuna, but none for Dawn. Hope this helps clarifying my question.
Leana
Enthusiast
You select the source figure in that list, not the target figure (if you look above the list in your screenshot, it says "what figure was the item originally designed for").
So when you autofit a Genesis item to Dawn you would select Genesis (provided you have a Genesis clone for Dawn), not Dawn.
The Dusk clone is for fitting Dusk items to Dawn, not to fit something to Dusk.
So when you autofit a Genesis item to Dawn you would select Genesis (provided you have a Genesis clone for Dawn), not Dawn.
The Dusk clone is for fitting Dusk items to Dawn, not to fit something to Dusk.
Ohhh, doh! You guys are absolutely right, sorry about that! I wanted to show one thing but did another. When it comes to DS clones, I am really out of my element.
Here's the correct image for the question I wanted to ask about. I have selected the leotard from my classic bunny suit, and tried to auto-fit it to Genesis, but there is no Dawn in the list. Well, now there is no Dusk or BabyLuna either.
Does that mean the clones that have showed when I had Dawn selected can only be used between HW figures?
Here's the correct image for the question I wanted to ask about. I have selected the leotard from my classic bunny suit, and tried to auto-fit it to Genesis, but there is no Dawn in the list. Well, now there is no Dusk or BabyLuna either.
Does that mean the clones that have showed when I had Dawn selected can only be used between HW figures?
That's correct. HiveWire made Dusk and Luna clones for Dawn (and visa versa for the others). Legally they can't make clones for models that are not their own. Same with Daz, they will only have clones that are for their figures. There was a tutorial somewhere that showed how to make your own clones (for your own use) but I don't know where it is at the moment sorry).
Yes, I am coming to that conclusion as well. However. the clones for Genesis show up in Auto-fit, no matter to what figure I am converting contents from or to. Auto-Fit only asks what figure the clothing was made for, not to what figure it is being refitted to. It was in that sense that I assumed Dawn clone could show up when converting her clothes to other figures.
I have asked Paul, and it seems like just having a clone is not enough for it to show in that list from Auto-Fit. It appears we must set an attribute on the clothing item before saving it to the library in DS, or else the clone won't show up on the list when refitted.
I have asked Paul, and it seems like just having a clone is not enough for it to show in that list from Auto-Fit. It appears we must set an attribute on the clothing item before saving it to the library in DS, or else the clone won't show up on the list when refitted.
Ok, I have found the keyword! I was looking for it on the DUF files from the "People" folder, but it was instead on the geometry main file from the "data" folder. Paul told me this is how DS knows which geometry to use as a clone for Auto-Fit. Below is an example found in the geometries from one of my own products for Dawn. Most of the ones from DAZ and their vendors were saved as binary files, so I had to search that from my own DS contents, because HW vendors save those as text files.
"preferred_base" : "/Dawn/Base"
Paul said with this keyword in place, Auto-Fit will use Dawn's own figure geometry as the source for the weight maps projection. This is why we only see Dusk and BabyLuna as clones listed in Auto-Fit, because Dawn is the base for both these figures - so she's the clone geometry herself. Things are stating to make sense now, but there is still a lot I don't know about DS clones.
"preferred_base" : "/Dawn/Base"
Paul said with this keyword in place, Auto-Fit will use Dawn's own figure geometry as the source for the weight maps projection. This is why we only see Dusk and BabyLuna as clones listed in Auto-Fit, because Dawn is the base for both these figures - so she's the clone geometry herself. Things are stating to make sense now, but there is still a lot I don't know about DS clones.
Leana
Enthusiast
I think there's a mix-up somewhere...
Clones are not used for weight maps projection, they're used to adjust the mesh to the target figure: basically when you autofit an item DS considers the mesh as made for "your target figure with the clone morph applied" so it "reverses" the clone morph to get a version of the mesh which would fit the base target figure.
Weight map projection is then done on that modified mesh using a projection template (second drop-down in autofit dialog lets you select that template among those you have for your target figure).
"Prefered base" tells you which figure the clothes are made for, so it determines if the clothes can be fit direcly to your figure or if autofit dialog will appear. If autofit is launched it might select the right clone directly if you have it, but it has no influence on which clones will appear if autofit is launched, that depends on the clones morphs you have for your target figure.
Eg if you set the prefered base as Genesis and fit the clothes to Dawn, autofit dialog will launch as Dawn is not the preferred base for the clothes. But it won't add a Genesis clone to Dawn if you didn't have one.
Dusk clothes have Dusk listed as the preferred base, not Dawn, even if Dusk and Luna were derived from her mesh.
If you look at the DS version of Dawn SE, you'll see that there's a "data\HiveWire 3D\Dawn\Base\Morphs\HiveWire 3D\HWClones" folder included with 2 dsf files in it: BabyLunaClone.dsf and DuskClone.dsf
Those are the data files for the clone morphs included with Dawn SE base. If you look at the file in a text editor you'll see that the main difference with a regular morph is that their type is set to "Modifier/Clone" (regular morphs will be Modifier/Pose or Modifier/Shape depending on what tab they appear in), and that they're set as not visible.
Clones are not used for weight maps projection, they're used to adjust the mesh to the target figure: basically when you autofit an item DS considers the mesh as made for "your target figure with the clone morph applied" so it "reverses" the clone morph to get a version of the mesh which would fit the base target figure.
Weight map projection is then done on that modified mesh using a projection template (second drop-down in autofit dialog lets you select that template among those you have for your target figure).
"Prefered base" tells you which figure the clothes are made for, so it determines if the clothes can be fit direcly to your figure or if autofit dialog will appear. If autofit is launched it might select the right clone directly if you have it, but it has no influence on which clones will appear if autofit is launched, that depends on the clones morphs you have for your target figure.
Eg if you set the prefered base as Genesis and fit the clothes to Dawn, autofit dialog will launch as Dawn is not the preferred base for the clothes. But it won't add a Genesis clone to Dawn if you didn't have one.
Dusk clothes have Dusk listed as the preferred base, not Dawn, even if Dusk and Luna were derived from her mesh.
If you look at the DS version of Dawn SE, you'll see that there's a "data\HiveWire 3D\Dawn\Base\Morphs\HiveWire 3D\HWClones" folder included with 2 dsf files in it: BabyLunaClone.dsf and DuskClone.dsf
Those are the data files for the clone morphs included with Dawn SE base. If you look at the file in a text editor you'll see that the main difference with a regular morph is that their type is set to "Modifier/Clone" (regular morphs will be Modifier/Pose or Modifier/Shape depending on what tab they appear in), and that they're set as not visible.
Thank you for all the info, Leana. It's easy for me to jump to the wrong conclusions when the info I have is so little and scattered. So a clone is a reference for the shape, and there is still a separate template for the weights projection? So "Preferred base" is just for DS to know when to show the Auto-Fit dialog. If I am conforming the item to a figure different from the one in the keyword, then Auto-Fit kicks in, then I have to select which figure the item was meant for.
Paul told me the reason Dawn doesn't have a clone of her own (shows as "unsupported") is because she's the base figure for Dusk and Baby Luna. I am [again] jumping to the conclusion that these clones were only meant to refit clothing between HW figures. Does this mean that if I drag Dawn's clothing over Dusk or BabyLuna, Auto-Fit will automatically know how to refit the clothing without asking me? Is that what these clones are meant for?
Paul told me the reason Dawn doesn't have a clone of her own (shows as "unsupported") is because she's the base figure for Dusk and Baby Luna. I am [again] jumping to the conclusion that these clones were only meant to refit clothing between HW figures. Does this mean that if I drag Dawn's clothing over Dusk or BabyLuna, Auto-Fit will automatically know how to refit the clothing without asking me? Is that what these clones are meant for?
You're not jumping to conclusion, that's exactly what it means. If you are putting a Dawn clothing on Dawn there won't be a auto-fit because its already hers. If you were putting a Dawn item on Dusk then she would appear so you could let Dusk know it was an item for Dawn and it will adjust to his shape. HW legally can only do clones for their own figures but you can make your own clone if you wanted to put Dawn clothing on say V4 or visa versa for your own use (you just can't legally share your clone).
A projection template is something different, it is used for making clothing, not auto-fitting.
Thanks for clarifying Rae134! It's easy to take clones for granted, but I am a Poser guy and there is no such thing or concept in Poser. I have nothing to compare this with, so all I can do is ask about it and hope people will know. I think I have a better understanding now, thanks to help from the community.
Ohh I see. But when we Auto-fit to a different figure, doesn't that require projecting the weights? I [again] jumped to the conclusion that clones would be related. So can projection templates be created (in the sense that custom clones can be created)? What's the difference between a cone and a projection template? Let me guess - one is a morph that reshapes a figure into another, and the other is a model that has a shape closer to that of clothing (instead of a base figure)?