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Adjust rigging to shape

jecnodde

Admirable
Hi ppl. I'm playing around to make some morphs to Harry. Some morphs/shapes will need the bones to follow.

I can find information on how to do it ds - but I cant find anything about it how its done and if is even possible to do in poser.

For example: I'm working on a morph that makes the space between the ears bigger. (see image) The morh will make the ear move away enough to make the movement dials look odd, so it need to be fixed.

earmove.JPG
 

Darryl

Adventurous
Can't help you with that but I know it's possible. One of Poser 11's spiffy new features was for joints to automatically adjust to extreme morphs. Poser's had the ability to manually link joints to morphs in previous versions as well. Should be in the manual, or try asking at the official Poser forums.
 

3WC

Engaged
Contributing Artist
I've had the same question. I think I've looked in the manual and haven't found anything yet. But I only have Poser 9, I thought maybe it was a pro only feature, or a newer development.
 

Glitterati3D

Dances with Bees
Hi ppl. I'm playing around to make some morphs to Harry. Some morphs/shapes will need the bones to follow.

I can find information on how to do it ds - but I cant find anything about it how its done and if is even possible to do in poser.

For example: I'm working on a morph that makes the space between the ears bigger. (see image) The morh will make the ear move away enough to make the movement dials look odd, so it need to be fixed.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure of the question you are trying to ask.

Is it that you want other parts of the head to morph with the ears?

If this is the case, you'll need to add the body parts to the affected actors in Poser rigging and make sure they all move together. In essence, a Joint Controlled Morph.

Or is it that you want to control how much the ears move?

This is the more simple solution - just set limits on the morph so that it can't be dialed past a certain spot.
 

jecnodde

Admirable
Well the morph will effect both ear and head.

The morph will move the ears apart from each other - so the bones for the eas will get out of place.

In "norma" morphs; the bone will stay in place

This ear morph will move the mesh away so much that when ever someone uses the "twist, bend, side.side" controll - the mesh will break course the mesh have moved - thats way I want the morph also effect the bones so no mesh breaking.


Gahhh dont know how to explain it.


Here look at this video:

The shape is kind of off, so the rigging must change with the morph - that is what I want to do. rigging that changes with morph but in poser.
 
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Glitterati3D

Dances with Bees
Well the morph will effect both ear and head.

The morph will move the ears apart from each other - so the bones for the eas will get out of place.

In "norma" morphs; the bone will stay in place

This ear morph will move the mesh away so much that when ever someone uses the "twist, bend, side.side" controll - the mesh will break course the mesh have moved - thats way I want the morph also effect the bones so no mesh breaking.


Gahhh dont know how to explain it.


Here look at this video:

The shape is kind of off, so the rigging must change with the morph - that is what I want to do. rigging that changes with morph but in poser.

Well, first let's make sure you have the settings correct. On the properties tab of the parameter window, make sure you have these checked (ON). Your best bet is to turn them on and off one at a time and see if they resolve the issue you are having.

ParametersProperties.jpg
 

3WC

Engaged
Contributing Artist
Harry is not a conforming item, though, so those boxes will have no effect. Basically what jecnodde is saying, is that when the mesh moves drastically, the rigging joint centers need to change to avoid distortion when rotating and translating that body part. In DS, there is a simple right click option called "Adjust Rigging to shape", and then you are able to do an ERC freeze so that those rigging adjustments are always tied to that morph. There seems to be nothing comparable to that in Poser that we have been able to find.
 

jecnodde

Admirable
Thanks - and thanks for giving me the correct search words "Joint Controlled Morph" - it atleast gave me a starting pointers :D

When searching with "Adjust rigging to shape" got just Ds related result :p

So back to playing...last night was kind of a sucsess untill imported to poser and making morph, I had done wrong in export/import somewhere...haha sight then we can talk about breaking mesh
 

jecnodde

Admirable
Harry is not a conforming item, though, so those boxes will have no effect. Basically what jecnodde is saying, is that when the mesh moves drastically, the rigging joint centers need to change to avoid distortion when rotating and translating that body part. In DS, there is a simple right click option called "Adjust Rigging to shape", and then you are able to do an ERC freeze so that those rigging adjustments are always tied to that morph. There seems to be nothing comparable to that in Poser that we have been able to find.

Exaclty, thanks :)
So is it possible in some way, or should I stay away from that kind of morphs?
 

3WC

Engaged
Contributing Artist
I think it has something to do with Edit Dependencies, where you can tie the x,y, and z offset into the morph. But I'm not real clear on how that works. Generally I create this kind of stuff in DS and then export it to Poser format. But that doesn't always work well, and tweaking within Poser is still necessary.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
So if you posted a video, it's not showing, so I'm not a hundred percent sure of the issue you are having. Also what version of Poser are you using? As Darryl said:

One of Poser 11's spiffy new features was for joints to automatically adjust to extreme morphs. Poser's had the ability to manually link joints to morphs in previous versions as well. Should be in the manual, or try asking at the official Poser forums.

But If I do understand what's happening, then yes, there are ways to fix the issues you are seeing by using dependancies and a combination of MCMs and JCMs (master control morphs, and joint control morphs) and it's just fine if the morph spans more than one body part when using either of those.

What I would maybe search for is a tutorial on making eye close morphs, because this is probably the most common place where people run into the sort of issue I think you are having.

All that being said, I'm not up on the newer features with joints in Poser 11, but I'm pretty sure prior to that the skeleton does stay the same size. I loaded up the Beast horse breed for Harry, which is huge compared to the normal size of the figure. There were a lot of JCMs built into that breed, I think to resolve just these issues. As an experiment I also loaded up a dynamic item for Harry I've been working on, sized it up to fit the Beast, and then put it through the fitting room to create a skeleton based on that skeleton of Harry with the Beast morph. When I took my new figure into the setup room it had the much smaller skeleton of Harry's regular size (which is what I expected, but it was the only way I could think of to check).

So any way, it is doable.
 

jecnodde

Admirable
"So if you posted a video, it's not showing,"
haha well I didnt write the link to the video - kind of forgott it :p

Thanks for the answer :)


Little Off topic, but found a funny picture when searching for reference photo ;)

263c5abe282f21cacb10843dfb47e16c.jpg
 

Pendraia

Sage
Contributing Artist
iirc when I did Diva and exported her as a cr2 before creating the injections it did it automatically. The difficulty was keeping the info in the injection file which is why Diva's injection was handcoded but that was before Poser 11. I believe Ram did something that required it and got it to work but I can't remember how.
 

Ghostman

Adventurous
Contributing Artist
Can't remember how it was in P9 or 10, but in P11 Pro you have the option for Match centers to Morph. On the Morph dial click on the little arrow and you'll get a drop down and there you have the option for it.
I do belive though that this is a Pro only feature if I'm not misstaken.
 

RobZhena

Adventurous
What Ghostman said. I couldn't find it in the manual, either, and it's supposed to be one of the great new features.
 

Pendraia

Sage
Contributing Artist
That sounds right Ghostman...I haven't tried it myself but remember reading what Ram posted.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
What Ghostman said. I couldn't find it in the manual, either, and it's supposed to be one of the great new features.

I went digging, and found it in Chapter 32, page 815/832 (the number at the top of the page, the number in the pdf) of the pdf.

The quick version. Once you're morph is created, click on the triangle to the the right of it in the parameters tab. In the drop down there's an option for Match Centers to Morph.
 

RobZhena

Adventurous
SM confused things by publicly referring to "adaptive rigging," so you already had to know the answer to find the information in the manual.
 

jecnodde

Admirable
Thanks ppl :)

Been working on my morphs, just to relearn the darn polygroup problem, so had to redo the whole thing 2 times. Then I made another misstake - so started over once more from scratch. Good lerning thou :p. Was long ago since I was doing morphs :)

The rerigging aint a problem, since I have rerigged lots of modell - like Lynes moose :). My problem was to make the new rigg following the morph dial + my rigging experience is old, last time was in Poser 6 ;)
 
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