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Blender 2.8 - Proposed New User Interface

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
OK, I couldn't find the initial post I saw on a Blender forum, but I just found this article -->
Blender Wiki 2.8 Workshop Writeup

If you scroll down a bit, the first screenshot shows what the opening screen will look like. You can click on it to make it larger, and easier to see --> Blender 2.8 Template Splash Screen

I do remember posting a comment that I didn't think the word Template was appropriate, as most folks will associate it with a Microsoft Word, or similar software, document, and in this case it's a change in the software's UI, not a document template. Not sure if they will change the name or not, but this will give you an idea how you can choose what type of environment you plan to work in. Not sure what the Get More will offer, but wold assume Animation would be one of the choices.

I have not read the entire article, so not sure what other information there will be helpful. This is still a work in progress.
 

DaremoK3

Enthusiast
I believe Template is correct usage here. Templates have been used for 2D/3D as well as written word. It is correct terminology for a base setup.

Other 3D software I use which employs templates include SketchUp, Metasequoia, Carrara, RayDream3D; Just to name a couple off the top of my head.

Blender 2.79 has the basic template structure already implemented, but I'm sure 2.8 will be much more fleshed out. I have only created one template for 2.79 so far, and it has some shortcomings, but it does work. Image below of created template for 2.79.

Also, 2.8 is available to try out from daily builds if you guys want to test drive.

I tried, but 2.8 won't work on my system, so 2.79 is the end of the line for me for a few years at least.

Blender 2.79 Template:
MCC_WIP.jpg
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I believe Template is correct usage here. Templates have been used for 2D/3D as well as written word. It is correct terminology for a base setup.
Just seems strange to me, so I guess it's what the individual user is familiar with that counts.

Also, 2.8 is available to try out from daily builds if you guys want to test drive.
I've always been squimish about trying out nightly builds on software. A public beta is one thing, but I'm always afraid a nightly build might mess up my system.

I tried, but 2.8 won't work on my system, so 2.79 is the end of the line for me for a few years at least.
What system are you are you working on? I would think they'd make it available for more than just the latest version of Windows, Linux or OSx. Then again, it might work on your system when the final version comes out. They're still working on it, so whatever's causing you problems might get straightened out.
 

Lobo3433

Admirable
If you ever wanted to try nightly builds run them off a jump drive I have found that to be safest since nothing really gets installed onto your main system and even the profile file that usually gets created C:\Users\AppData\Roaming\Blender Foundation actually is created on the jump drive instead so less likely hood of it corrupting your stable build you have installed on your system
Just seems strange to me, so I guess it's what the individual user is familiar with that counts.


I've always been squimish about trying out nightly builds on software. A public beta is one thing, but I'm always afraid a nightly build might mess up my system.


What system are you are you working on? I would think they'd make it available for more than just the latest version of Windows, Linux or OSx. Then again, it might work on your system when the final version comes out. They're still working on it, so whatever's causing you problems might get straightened out.
 

Darryl

Adventurous
I believe Template is correct usage here. Templates have been used for 2D/3D as well as written word. It is correct terminology for a base setup.

Other 3D software I use which employs templates include SketchUp, Metasequoia, Carrara, RayDream3D; Just to name a couple off the top of my head.

Blender 2.79 has the basic template structure already implemented, but I'm sure 2.8 will be much more fleshed out. I have only created one template for 2.79 so far, and it has some shortcomings, but it does work. Image below of created template for 2.79.

Also, 2.8 is available to try out from daily builds if you guys want to test drive.

I tried, but 2.8 won't work on my system, so 2.79 is the end of the line for me for a few years at least.

Blender 2.79 Template:
View attachment 33220
So what's up with the Marvelous Cloth Creator? Looks interesting.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I've been trying to figure that one out too Darryl, so I'm interested as well.
 

DaremoK3

Enthusiast
Hey, Miss B...

The issue with 2.8 is hardware architecture. I thought it was my video card not having the new minimum OpenGL requirement, but it has 4.3, so it isn't that, but some other kind of limitation with either chipset, or motherboard instructions.

A couple of years ago they abandoned architectures for Pentium III's and AthlonXP's x86 (which was my laptop), and I could no longer use the latest Blender available on my laptop. I believe the last one I could use was 2.72 or 2.74 - don't quite remember since 2.71 was my workhorse (still is), and I just tested and played in the other versions.

Now, for my aging Windows 7 x64 box, it doesn't appear that I have what is needed to be able to run 2.8. Hell, I can't even use the current Pixar OpenSub-Div viewport algorithm that has been available for a few versions now on my rig. I'll have to wait a couple of years when I am able to get an updated PC.

Regarding my cloth creation addon (for Darryl also):

Back in 2015 in one of Lobo's threads (Hey Lobo) over at Rendo we were discussing some kind of Blender related issues/techniques/what-have-you, and I had mentioned that I was planning on using Blender to create a Marvelous Designer 2 emulator for my own use (I have a love/hate relationship with that software/company), but I have been waiting for Blender's cloth coding to become more mature, and also waiting on other coders' work to become available for inclusion (did not happen, but other avenues became available to me).

I started working on it last year, but I was mostly working with the 2D creation module, and tessellation algorithms. Then, I became heavily involved with beta testing for VWD Cloth and Hair Simulation and a NPR production product for DAZ Studio, so I didn't have much free time to work on it. But, in working with VWD, it gave me an end goal; Instead of waiting for Blender to catch up with other current cloth simulators, I would work towards integrating VWD with Blender, and use it's simulator as the simulation module (which I love, and believe is on par with MD - actually, better, since it has true zero gravity, while I have never achieved zero gravity using MD).

Since I am only a part-time coder (and not really a good one), I don't work on it that much, but I do enjoy the challenge, so I work on it a little here and there. I was developing it for my workhorse 2.71, and 2.76, but a couple of months ago I started to transition over to 2.79, and that is where the dual module approach really came together with the addition of the Templates. Not so much because of the templates (I had already done it in 2.76), but because the templates gave me reason to try something different, and I was able to achieve workspace separation usage (independent of one another, but can be synced) ahead of coding schedule here at the macro designing phase.

I have five stages/phases planned with this (ugly/unwieldy) version being stage 1 - macro designing/building toolsets/workflows. The last planned stage will be bridging with VWD, but that is probably a year or two out.

I plan to open a thread here showcasing it, because I want to show that Blender can do everything that MD can do (sans some simulation parameters), and in some regards, even surpasses what can be achieved with MD. And, all without the $700 price tag (or whatever they are up to now). I have been studying Rich Colburn's work, and If he released his full cloth suite for Blender, it would blow MD away.

On a side note; There is currently a cloth creation addon available for you guys called Cloth Weaver. It's a little pricey now (as a hobbyist opinion - for professional studios, probably not so much), I purchased it when it was a month in for a reasonable price, but one update later and it jumped in price. He does offer free lifetime upgrades, and is actively growing the addon. I never purchase any addons for Blender due to a certain belief system, but I had seen this on Youtube while researching more of Rich Colburn's work, and it piqued my interest. I wanted to see how he was coding some things, and if I could learn anything from it. It is not as robust as mine, but it does not aim to be a MD clone, so for what it does, it is a great cloth creation addon for Blender. You guys should check it out.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I'm not a huge fan of MD because I never upgraded past MD3, and I absolutely hate working with Tris. Once you're used to working with Quads, it's the only way to go, and Blender's Remesher doesn't quite do the job.

That said, however, a nice cloth creation addon that works with Quads would really be a nice addition. Does Rich Colburn have his own site where it's available?
 

DaremoK3

Enthusiast
I never upgraded past MD2...

But, I love working with Tris. However, Delaunay Unstructured (MD, Sculptris, Blender, Metasequoia, etc), or Hexamesh (structured Isotropic trimesh) only. Don't really care for triangulated quads, and absolutely despise elongated skinny tris.

For cloth sims, trimesh is best, but even this can be per use basis, and per cloth sim basis. Some cloth sims excel with quadmesh (Maya nCloth), and some with triangulated quads (Optitex), but MD, and Poser both are designed for trimesh (MD self-explanatory - quadmesh is supposed to be an export parameter [on mesh final], not meant for draping, and Poser uses 3DSMax's ClothFX simulation module which is optimized for the cloth creation module [which Poser did not get] that uses the same MD style Delaunay trimesh).

Conversely, Blender seems better suited to quadmesh, but works as well with Delaunay tris if quad borders are established. This might be due to cloth sim algorithms being descendant of TopixCloth, and that is before my time of study. I have an original version I can implement in Blender 2.49, but I'm lazy, and it doesn't seem fruitful at this point. In studying the written coding, though, Blender's cloth sim coding is much more advanced, and better suited for cloth structures other than just flags and tablecloths now...

Blender's Remesher... Don't get me started... Have you ever seen the video game Q-Bert? That algorithm was originally designed as a remesher for Metaball anisotropic tri-mess. It works via voxel cubes from viewport raycasting (hence, Q-Bert cubes), and you end up with a hell of a lot of diamonds in your mesh. I never use that tool, and it such a shame that such a talented coder wasted so much time in coding that. It would have been better if other coding algorithms were explored and implemented (even one as bad as MD's would have been better).

Regarding Rich Colburn's work, and the commercial addon I mentioned. Just to be clear, the commercial addon, Cloth Weaver, is by Alexander Kane over at Blender Market. You can find Rich Colburn's work over at Github under the moniker 'the3dadvantage', but you will not find his full suite you can see him using in his Youtube videos. He does have a partial cloth module available, and an awesome flattening addon that can be used for a lot of different workflows.
 

DaremoK3

Enthusiast
Also, I just wanted to add an aside for anyone interested. If not, move along - nothing to see here...

Rich Colburn's cloth work makes heavy use of Python Numpy, and is much faster than Blender default (not what's available, though).

The reason why I want to mention this is because there is another Cloth Creation and Simulation addon that is set to explode on the DS scene soon (but not DAZ soon), and possibly even slated for Blender's use (as well as other software). People are seemly going nuts for this new one, and for good reason, though, the comparisons are from those with face value knowledge.

Why do I bring this up? Good question... Glad you asked.

It is because the guy coding this new wonder sim is the guy who invented the Python Numpy module (Well, the original incarnation, Numeric - all the base coding for Numpy). His name is Jim Hugunin.

I thought Rich's work was impressive, but Jim's work is about to be legendary.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Also, I just wanted to add an aside for anyone interested. If not, move along - nothing to see here...
Ohhhh, someone else who's on a Star Wars binge this weekend? ;)

Seriously though, thanks for all the information. As far as Blender's Remesher, I wish it worked as well as ZBrush's ZRemesher, for I understand that really does the job well, AND you can choose how many polys you want to have when all is said and done, so it doesn't get too poly heavy in the process.
 

DaremoK3

Enthusiast
No... no Star Wars binging for me this weekend, though, that would be fun. I couldn't find the droids I was looking for...

Yeah, ZRemesher is probably the height all others should shoot for. Blender does have a pretty good solution, though, not quite on par with ZRemesher, it is a close second; Instant Meshes with the Blender InstantMesher bridge addon.

It handles quad remeshing very well, and with user directed input of topology guide lines, as well as mesh density settings, one can produce decent results. I've seen some people posting having trouble with hard edges, but it's probably due to them not knowing to place topology guide lines along each edge.

I looked into it for my tris to quads conversions for cloth patterns, but I want an automated solution, and too much user input is needed (drawing guide lines along each border). I downloaded the source code to see if I can go through it and find a way to automate this, but I haven't gone through it yet. Hand done utilizing guides in IM, then shrinkwrapped to original trimesh and performing 1 to 1 vertex snapping along the border edges back in Blender gives great results for hands on work.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
No... no Star Wars binging for me this weekend, though, that would be fun. I couldn't find the droids I was looking for...
Oh that was last weekend. One of the networks was showing all six of the movies all weekend long, so naturally I was watching. As for the new one that just came out, I'll wait until the crush at the movie theaters is over before I even attempt to see it.

Yeah, ZRemesher is probably the height all others should shoot for. Blender does have a pretty good solution, though, not quite on par with ZRemesher, it is a close second; Instant Meshes with the Blender InstantMesher bridge addon.
The InstantMesher bridge addon sounds interesting, where would I find out about it?
 

DaremoK3

Enthusiast
Yeah, I saw that they were on, and was tempted, but too much work to do. Actually, I almost was going to have a Star Wars day today, and watch the first seven. My brother has the six box-set, and I DVR-ed EP 7 to watch after the six. I am probably going to wait on EP 8 until it comes to home theaters, and have my Star Wars day then...

Here is where you can find Instant Meshes, and InstantMesher. I recommend watching some example tuts on Youtube to get the gist of the work-flow:

Instant Meshes: GitHub - wjakob/instant-meshes: Interactive field-aligned mesh generator
InstantMesher: GitHub - VerbalTea/instantmesher: Blender script to facilitate export/import to and from "Instant Meshes"

EDIT: If you want to learn more about InstantMesher go here:
[WIP]InstantMesher: automated export and import for 'Instant Meshes' (Windows/Linux)
 
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